tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post3021946952204326889..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Guest Blog; Why Young People Don't Join Political PartiesIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64482122474646275532008-10-20T21:18:00.000+01:002008-10-20T21:18:00.000+01:00why should we? Why can we have an independent mind...why should we? Why can we have an independent mind and have our OWN beliefs and values with government. You want to know why a third party is never going to be president? It's because of the winner-takes-all system. The winner of a state's popular vote get all of the state's electoral vote!!! Obama is winning all the votes, so why should I vote for McCain? The voting system is not fair. The Government has to make it so complicated and screwy! That's why. Young people are more exposed to the truths now a days with all the technologies in the world. We understand.<BR/>Lauren, 20 Memphis, TNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35666665126241158012008-07-30T11:50:00.000+01:002008-07-30T11:50:00.000+01:00Way too much utter nonsense in this guest blog to ...Way too much utter nonsense in this guest blog to bother going through it all.<BR/><BR/>Some points:<BR/><BR/>"did the recent commemorations of ’68 carry an implicit charge of political apathy aimed at “young people today”"<BR/><BR/>Probably. Thatcher's successful campaign to destroy the British economy transformed young people from idiot idealists into money-grabbing careerists. The young became known as young fogies. Boring farts. <BR/><BR/>"I’ve found that even those of us with the keenest interest in politics share this aversion to tribal politics"<BR/><BR/>Wow. You've discovered you know nothing so you've decided to go into 'thinking' for a living and agreeing with other people who know sod all. How sweet.<BR/><BR/>"Many of the most talented members of the next political generation are not particularly interested in sacrificing sweat and tears, (let alone blood), to party organisations."<BR/><BR/>Heaven forbid. Naturally they are interested in being paid for 'thinking' of what to tell other people to do.<BR/><BR/>"a large measure of skill and enthusiasm will drain out of political life."<BR/><BR/>That would be self-proclaimed skill and enthusiasm. Ideally these young things should be sent to farms for education through actual work. Then we would have one less excuse for importing foreign cheap labour.<BR/><BR/>Can't be arsed with the rest of the drivel except to note the obvious historical point about the YCs. The only reason people used to join them was because it was easy to get laid. If any of the Henriettas did get pregnant they could afford to pop off to Switzerland for an abortion. The YCs declined when the Pill and abortion became available in the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30953147258728804922008-07-30T08:37:00.000+01:002008-07-30T08:37:00.000+01:00Really good article. Well-argued and interesting.F...Really good article. Well-argued and interesting.<BR/>For my part I suspect that this comes down to change - either a desire to change something (a sitting government) which is very firmly of the left or right (for example, the surge in party activism on the left under Thatcher) or a desire to install a party which seems to offer something genuinely new and exciting.<BR/>This has become less obvious as the main parties have converged on the same ground in recent years, but it's beginning to alter with Cameron's Tories (ironically not because they have a clear and exciting vision but because most young people can't recall a time when it felt okay to be pro-Tory and doing so suddenly makes them a little edgy).<BR/>Pre-recess it was interesting to note that. of an evening, allt he bright young things coming out of the House, Portcullis etc and drinking outside the Red Lion were young Tories - all seemed ten years younger than the Labour folk (and ten times happier)OscarIndiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10738557392950122273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70421499773497533302008-07-30T07:26:00.000+01:002008-07-30T07:26:00.000+01:00What ever you do dont join Labour as it is a party...What ever you do dont join Labour as it is a party in its death throws.With its support going in Wales and Scotland it will soon be the end. They have shown to another generation how thay cannot run anything. Try the Lib/Dems as they are now moving to where they shoud be to the centre right. When you reach the age of 30 and have understood the realities of life you can then join the Tories, who can run things because thats what the party is.Johnny Norfolkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900659617233793880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70137407646994686682008-07-30T07:03:00.000+01:002008-07-30T07:03:00.000+01:00It's called the rise of the Independent...free thi...It's called the rise of the Independent...free thinking is so now.<BR/><BR/>Tribes are so 20th century.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40527102954718475602008-07-30T01:24:00.000+01:002008-07-30T01:24:00.000+01:00Think tanks are more intellectually challenging? I...Think tanks are more intellectually challenging? I've heard it all. Think tanks are pie in the sky, designing polices for utopias. Why bother?<BR/><BR/>Lots and lots of young people want to make the country better, and go and work in the public or voluntary sectors, because they can spend all day working in the public interest. The real challenging policy debates take place not within parties, understandably obsessed with popularity, but within the civil service, where every day people have to think the unthinkable. Sadly the poisonous press means that none of the real debates on what government should do can be made public.<BR/><BR/>An earlier anonymous poster bemoaned people's failure to get invovled, while Graham was insightful in saying that people just don't "join" any organisations like they used to. It isn't hard to get involved in politics. It isn't that hard to make a difference. Really, people just don't want to enough. And think tanks are for the people who have no idea how to make a difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45404454342815589402008-07-29T22:42:00.000+01:002008-07-29T22:42:00.000+01:00Well the British National Party seem to be making ...Well the British National Party seem to be making progress on this front, just look at heanly and other recent elections. The conservatives need to pound the street and get noticedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46444530360515722712008-07-29T20:08:00.000+01:002008-07-29T20:08:00.000+01:00Spare me the IPOD generation stuff. My generation...Spare me the IPOD generation stuff. My generation found it hard to get jobs at sixteen, eighteen and after graduating. I still thought Thatcher was right though. Thanks to ERM exit and Norman Lamont we have enjoyed 16 years of stable growth since 1992 - growth since you were 5 Austen. <BR/><BR/>At 21 you may feel that the world should bend to meet your needs but if you do you are bound to be disappointed. You may want the world to heap treasures on you for simply being you but it don't work like that. <BR/><BR/>Get out into the world and do something - anything. The process of touching the sides will probably turn you into a Tory. Life does that. Those that deny it are just not very bright - or dumbly idealistic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85872514782663659722008-07-29T17:50:00.000+01:002008-07-29T17:50:00.000+01:00The first past the post system means you actually ...The first past the post system means you actually get far more consensus govt than you do with PR, where one-trick-pony parties hold the whiphand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48296245232044916812008-07-29T17:36:00.001+01:002008-07-29T17:36:00.001+01:00Not joining is a widespread social phenomenon that...Not joining is a widespread social phenomenon that is not unique to political parties. Groups involved in all sorts of activities, from trainspotting to choirs, wildlife, churches, etc., etc. - all find it harder to attract new recruits than they used to.<BR/><BR/>Other contributors may be be able to offer explanations.Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591511592562348782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90655440846231848762008-07-29T17:36:00.000+01:002008-07-29T17:36:00.000+01:00Any clown can think up ideas, the guts and ability...Any clown can think up ideas, the guts and ability to put your ideas and beliefs into practice is what separates out the 20 something researchers from the statesmen who can change society and enact the will of the electorate.<BR/><BR/>You can research the wind forever, only we know how to make it blow our way..............Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56081362944877556182008-07-29T17:27:00.001+01:002008-07-29T17:27:00.001+01:00'I joined the Party as I had strong beliefs in lib...'I joined the Party as I had strong beliefs in liberalism which lead me to join the party'.<BR/><BR/>But the only thing about the LIBDEMS that is liberal is the use of the word in their title. They are a Social Democratic Party.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately the young have been treated to 1997 as year one, they are not taught History anymore, but about Red Indians and the Holocaust, they have scant understanding of the liberal tradition at all. The Middle and older voter is utterly disgusted with the current shambles and knows that a vote once every five years is not democracy, its a licence for a five year parliamentary.<BR/> dictatorship in which they are increasingly taxed to death to pay for yet another invasion or intiative.Guthrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17499979740864497256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51391531029541107502008-07-29T17:27:00.000+01:002008-07-29T17:27:00.000+01:00"This post is greatly undermined by the fact that ..."This post is greatly undermined by the fact that Conservative Future has grown consistently for the last 10 years. It has also experienced record rates of growth in the last two years. "<BR/><BR/>Possibly, but the numbers are still trivial by anyone's standard. Very few people join off their own bat - it's usually because someone has dragged them along, and it starts to form part of their social circle. <BR/><BR/>I used to be in actively involved in the Party (during the dark days of IDS), but gave up after a while because all they really want you for is to push propaganda through letter boxes. Some of the people are nice, but most are a bit a bit scary. <BR/><BR/>I agree with the general thrust of the article, that younger people don't really see the dogma of party politics as being very attractive. The problem with that is we have a parliamentary democracy, and political parties are core to that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58807121150238316872008-07-29T17:13:00.000+01:002008-07-29T17:13:00.000+01:00xjDoes anyone else think that 'demanding consensus...xjDoes anyone else think that 'demanding consensus' as Austen Sanders suggests is a contradiction in terms (one of the many flaws in this naive, confused, ill-considered article)?<BR/><BR/>Still it only strengthens my beliefs that there are too many think tanks and that rather than lowering the voting age perhaps it should be raised?<BR/><BR/>PR (shish what nonsense)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83073303341391272002008-07-29T17:11:00.000+01:002008-07-29T17:11:00.000+01:00For the pedants saying iPod, he may well have actu...For the pedants saying iPod, he may well have actually meant <A HREF="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1529113/The-IPOD-generation-insecure,-pressured,-over-taxed,-debt-ridden.html" REL="nofollow">IPODs</A>.Praguetoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16520923731691837948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63308036454407079052008-07-29T16:29:00.000+01:002008-07-29T16:29:00.000+01:00More to the point "why do young people join politi...More to the point "why do young people join political parties??"Dick the Prickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02683095612320513712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86355479248156980062008-07-29T16:18:00.000+01:002008-07-29T16:18:00.000+01:00Broon's Talking Bawgie said..."Gord's (and our, si...Broon's Talking Bawgie said...<BR/><BR/>"Gord's (and our, since no-one will do the dirty it seems) only hope is events. Frankly a major terrorist attack or something. <BR/><BR/>That's right - Labour supporters are hoping (his words) for a major terrorist attack (again his words) because they think deaths, maimings, and horror in the underground, or on a train, or on a bus will bring party political advantage to the Labour Party.<BR/><BR/>WOW!!! You are worse than the Daily Mail!! One comment said the Labour party are doomed and only a major terrorist attack can save them - they did not say that they hope one happens! And you read that as ALL Labour supporters hoping for deaths, maimings, and horror!! <BR/><BR/>Or is that what you WANT to believe they believe?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67611235294423633702008-07-29T16:16:00.000+01:002008-07-29T16:16:00.000+01:00Oh diddums , actually the Conservative Party was n...Oh diddums , actually the Conservative Party was never a mass Party and the ‘Young Conservatives’ are a plague of desperate little creeps at the best of times . In the 50s they used to all go to Butlins and have wet tee shirt contests and it would be something of an improvement if they went back to that.<BR/><BR/><BR/>‘Even our brief experience working in a think-tank has shown us how much genuine cross-party consensus there is on issues such as academies,’<BR/><BR/>Oh really? When Brown got in the very first thing he did was to try and undermine the programme by placing them back under the control of Councils . Real Labour do not like academies and the Liberals just follow the crowd in any direction.<BR/>This article confirms my growing belief that the minimum voting age should be 30 and that young people should stick to trying to have sex with eachother which is what its all about anyway.<BR/><BR/><BR/>GrrrNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24822122154872927012008-07-29T15:56:00.000+01:002008-07-29T15:56:00.000+01:00The Ipod Generation? I can't help but feel older g...The Ipod Generation? <BR/><BR/>I can't help but feel older generations are jealous of our youthful freedoms and are attemtping to destroy us with terrible monickers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33104926555541079852008-07-29T15:49:00.000+01:002008-07-29T15:49:00.000+01:00"To get young people interested in politics and to..."To get young people interested in politics and to increase turnout amongst the entire population of voting age, PR is desperately needed, so we can vote for movements genuinely campaigning on issues we're interested in."<BR/><BR/>The ignorance would be hilarious if it was't so worrying.<BR/><BR/>I'll put it in very very simple language, PR produces a LOWER turnout and GREATER apathy.<BR/><BR/>Understand?<BR/><BR/>Even if I could forgive your naivity on that front I cannot forgive you for thin king that pr would weaken the power of the whips.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83952626943750005322008-07-29T15:29:00.000+01:002008-07-29T15:29:00.000+01:00Agree with johnny norfolk and mark clarke - if any...Agree with johnny norfolk and mark clarke - if anything, the trend I've noticed (and I'm a student at the moment - Oxford, since you ask) is one towards, rather than away from, political party affiliation. There's a fair number of 'card-carrying' members of all the parties running around in the 18-22 age-group at least, and the party-aligned student associations (even the Labour Club) are thriving as well as ever.PompeyTeutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08142154408563070147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25097052070936876252008-07-29T14:58:00.000+01:002008-07-29T14:58:00.000+01:00To be frank - why bother joining a political party...To be frank - why bother joining a political party as a young person unless you are going to be more or less guaranteed a job and a Parliamentary seat out of it. <BR/><BR/>Political life is now dominated by career politicians who have connections through parents or relatives to the party in question. Look at the younger MPs from Labour and check out their parents background. Almost all have some kind of parental or familial party connection that smoothed their way. Same thing goes for Tories. Ordinary members do not get a look in at the top posts and have no influence.<BR/><BR/>Why bother.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59478155831987185532008-07-29T14:43:00.000+01:002008-07-29T14:43:00.000+01:00My son thinks that reading Politics at university ...My son thinks that reading Politics at university is a far smarter move that reading Physics. His reasoning is simple: he has seen the salaries of his parents - both scientists - and has decided that he wants to be the one sqeeezing the golden goose dry instead of the one being squeezed dry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7729431815306455182008-07-29T14:27:00.000+01:002008-07-29T14:27:00.000+01:00What puts all people off political parties would b...What puts all people off political parties would be the dead hand of the whips. Too often we see threatened rebellions against daft and unpopular policies, and those rebellions crumble because whips would've told backbenchers what to do. Often during 'debates' on these unpopular moves by govts, the green benches are empty. The media don't help when they keep seeking 'divisions' within parties, causing whole parties to do the wrong thing, e.g. when Tories all voted for Maastricht or when Nu Lab gave us tuition fees. <BR/>the 1st past the post voting system also means that most of us are forced to vote tactically to keep parties from winning because we're fed up, and can't vote positively for anything. To get young people interested in politics and to increase turnout amongst the entire population of voting age, PR is desperately needed, so we can vote for movements genuinely campaigning on issues we're interested in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36634213370978177602008-07-29T14:06:00.000+01:002008-07-29T14:06:00.000+01:00This post is greatly undermined by the fact that C...This post is greatly undermined by the fact that Conservative Future has grown consistently for the last 10 years. It has also experienced record rates of growth in the last two years. <BR/><BR/>All this has been fairly well covered by the national media with the Financial Times doing a piece a few weeks ago and the Telegraph a big spread last year. It shouldn't have been too hard to use google to get a few facts before writing. <BR/><BR/>It's easy to make an assertion that young people aren't joining political parties. However, young people are joining the Conservative Party's youth wing. <BR/><BR/>Some facts might be good next time.Mark Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15081304122269935086noreply@blogger.com