tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2685188749433943302..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Cameron Starts the Conservative FightbackIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52866065612503938562008-10-20T09:27:00.000+01:002008-10-20T09:27:00.000+01:00The tories are finished.The tories are finished.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20973756463002714952008-10-18T09:35:00.000+01:002008-10-18T09:35:00.000+01:00Unleash KenUnleash KenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29731053627654126832008-10-17T23:54:00.000+01:002008-10-17T23:54:00.000+01:00"Dolly's boys are here again"If you really want to..."Dolly's boys are here again"<BR/><BR/>If you really want to believe that, I hope it makes you happy. There are lots of Conservatives here who are despairing at Cameron's feeble response so far. His speech was OK but severely lacking in vision for the future. I don't think that's good enough for a potential future PM - do you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83627257941748945222008-10-17T23:50:00.000+01:002008-10-17T23:50:00.000+01:00Dolly's boys are here again.....I really wonder if...Dolly's boys are here again.....<BR/><BR/>I really wonder if any of them actually heard the speech given the totally biased analysis on Sky and Beeb - and selective clips, swiftly followed by pictures of the Great Gordon in the Sky looking like the cat that had swallowed the cream (ugh). How anyone can defend Brown's economic record is beyond me. He courted the rich and stole from the poor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13655128392308325212008-10-17T21:00:00.000+01:002008-10-17T21:00:00.000+01:00Cameron's problem is that he seeks to heap the all...Cameron's problem is that he seeks to heap the all the blame on Brown - nobody seriously thinks that is true. As such the Conservatives appear to be either dishonest or that they dont really understand the real problems. This makes his media "onslaught" on the Prime Minister lose its effectiveness. <BR/><BR/>Osborne has several policy solutions, some of which deserve examination as useful additions to the Brown Banking rescue - but Cameron's rather speech has now dissipated that story. Cameron and his Tory central office spinners who were busy briefing the BBC and others last night about this "onslaught" , failed to understand that the story should have been about a Tory economic revival plan - rather than an attack on Brown. As a result the media did as CCO briefed and reported this as an attack on Brown. Osborne meanwhile is attacked today for the Telegraph for dissapearing. Is it any suprise when his boss is whirling around the City dervishly delivering attacks on the Prime Minister.?<BR/><BR/>Cameron, is not equipped to address these economic issues. He needs to move out of his media manipulation comfort zone, start to trust his shadow chancellor to deal with this, and lay off the personal attacks on Brown who is genuinely on top of things and is calmly getting on with a real plan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70571707241079692192008-10-17T18:32:00.000+01:002008-10-17T18:32:00.000+01:00cmq - the bale out was the correct thing to do - h...cmq - the bale out was the correct thing to do - how we got there is quite different. Brown will say its none of his fault, try to say the whole mess comes from outside - as a conservand economy is in is down to HIS economic mistakes. That is just what Cameron is saying now. <BR/><BR/>Theres is just no satisfying some people.<BR/><BR/>Do the anonymous trolls and off work 'sickies' think we are all thick? BROWN is in charge - oh shock horror its all Camerons fault now is it? <BR/>Bog off - Whats Brown done? Spend £37 billion of our money (just for starters just watch him spend to try to save his neck at the next election) -- 'gizza job, I could do that'.<BR/><BR/>Support the bale out?<BR/>We saw the the mess the partisan Pelosi made in her sickening diatribe.<BR/>Tories were right to NOT behave like that. The markets were in meltdown.<BR/><BR/>Recapitalisation of the banks was the right thing to do, Osborne called for it 2 weeks ago and said it might need govt help. <BR/><BR/>In all the chaos lets not forget that just two banks HBOS and RBS out of 6 need govt help (Lloyds only need any because of their take over of HBOS) so Osborne's judgement seems sound to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59382579128891859042008-10-17T17:40:00.000+01:002008-10-17T17:40:00.000+01:00ALL of the ANON's who are saying that Cameron want...ALL of the ANON's who are saying that Cameron wanted less regulation; wasn't it GB who wanted "lighter touch" regulation?<BR/><BR/>Is there much difference?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57195394464699870252008-10-17T17:30:00.000+01:002008-10-17T17:30:00.000+01:00To Jon @ 2:18I'm as far from a regime supporti...To Jon @ 2:18<BR/><BR/>I'm as far from a regime supporting troll as it's possible to be.<BR/><BR/>By acting like IDS did in the run up to the Iraq war - ie desperately trying to appear all statesman like & co-operative and not properly holding the government to account, Dave and George have very little room for maneuver now. The tories have lost momentum and are being outclassed and taken to pieces by campbell and mandleson on a daily basis.<BR/><BR/>What's needed is a co-ordinated communication strategy for multiple audiences. There's no political point in Cameron doing what he did today. The majority of people in the city either genuinely believe brown is in the frame for the economic mess that afflicts the UK, or they're more than happy to point the finger at him to deflect criticism. Cameron needs to find a way to get a very simple, sound bite based message across to the general public. <BR/><BR/>Most people, barring the thick, the naive and the evil (the 3 main constituencies of the labour party), instinctively want to hate brown and his cronies. Cameron should take every opportunity and use every channel to reinforce our prejudices.CMQhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10802322915074739927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59113797642696228272008-10-17T16:15:00.000+01:002008-10-17T16:15:00.000+01:00We should stand on a platform of total deregulatio...We should stand on a platform of total deregulation of the City<BR/><BR/>what are we scared of<BR/><BR/>No one really cares and the City earns billions for UK PLC so why be shy<BR/><BR/>Lets say it loud and proud<BR/><BR/>Let Market Forces rule<BR/><BR/>Dont let politics or politicians get in the way - what do they knowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32599967131422972192008-10-17T15:50:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:50:00.000+01:00This is from the Eureferendum blog:Friday, October...This is from the Eureferendum blog:<BR/><BR/>Friday, October 17, 2008<BR/><BR/>An "Enron" speech<BR/> <BR/>Mr David Cameron has delivered a speech, heralding The Conservative plan for a responsible economy. Parts of it are good – some of it is very good, very good indeed.<BR/><BR/>However, good or bad, in 4,956 words, there are two words missing: "European Union". Nowhere in this wide-ranging speech can those two words be found.<BR/><BR/>Oddly enough, the speech opens with this stirring passage:<BR/><BR/>Politics is about many things – the words you speak, the understanding you have of the problems we face, the vision you have, the policies you draw up and your ability to implement them.<BR/>With this, of course, we could hardly disagree. But we would add a small rejoinder of our own. Politics is also about the words you don't speak. And in this case, the silence speaks volumes – it screams out and attacks, nay destroys the last part of the sentence: "…the policies you draw up and your ability to implement them".<BR/><BR/>Mr Cameron, you need to be aware of a few facts of life – although I guess you must know them already, but they need restating:<BR/><BR/>The regulation of financial services is an exclusive European Union competence – it comes under the Single Market provisions and is touched by other aspects of the treaties, such as the "freedom of movement of capital" and "right of establishment".<BR/><BR/>Not only is this an exclusive competence, it is also what is known as an "occupied field", an area in which the European Union has chosen to legislate.<BR/><BR/>This means that member states have very limited powers. They may not legislate in areas which are already covered by EU law and which will interfere with or in any way contradict EU law. And EU law, as you well know, is supreme and cannot be changed unilaterally.<BR/><BR/>As a general rule, the member states may only legislate in this field in order to implement EU law, to clarify it or to ensure its proper enforcement.<BR/><BR/>A member state may, however, go further than EU law, but only if it does not contradict EU law and does not impinge upon treaty provisions, such as "freedom of movement of capital", and then only with the express permission of the EU commission.<BR/><BR/>The scope for any British government to legislate and control financial services is, therefore, extremely limited. Many of your proposals thus, while excellent on their own account, would – if you tried to implement them – impinge on EU law. In short, you could not implement them – at least, not without confronting the EU, which you have no intention of doing.<BR/><BR/>In my school days, we were taught the meaning, the definition of a lie. It is not simply the utterance of an untruth. In full, it is the "act, default or sufferance". You can also tell a lie by not saying something, which conveys thereby an untruth.<BR/><BR/>In omitting the words "European Union," you seek to convey that you, as leader of a Conservative government, could and would do certain things which you must know – you cannot avoid knowing – you cannot do. You seek to convey the impression that you are in control when you must know that you are not.<BR/><BR/>This, Mr Cameron, is an "Enron" speech. In the US, they put the Enron directors in jail. What should we do with you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22310482605297222842008-10-17T15:42:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:42:00.000+01:00Hello ... is anybody in?Bullingdon Dave is a shall...Hello ... is anybody in?<BR/><BR/>Bullingdon Dave is a shallow salesman. No?<BR/><BR/>Boy George is out of his depth - and a privileged toff. No?<BR/><BR/>Come on, I want to play.<BR/><BR/>I think Gordon's the best PM since Atlee. Actually, I've gone too far... sorryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58012398643465937502008-10-17T15:22:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:22:00.000+01:00Boris is right more deregulation of the City is wh...Boris is right more deregulation of the City is what we need not more<BR/><BR/>what wrong with City bonuses<BR/><BR/>why are we slagging off our supporters in the City<BR/><BR/>If only we had Boris and not CameronAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64450904927400891852008-10-17T15:20:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:20:00.000+01:00I didn't do that one just now at 3.18pm. I'd never...I didn't do that one just now at 3.18pm. I'd never misuse punctuation like that...Maybe that's a real Draper contribution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78300941627280848272008-10-17T15:18:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:18:00.000+01:00where was cameron during the tories financial melt...where was cameron during the tories financial meltdown<BR/><BR/>slagging off Brown to this level will not work and is a sign of weakness<BR/><BR/>Did Blair ??<BR/><BR/>No the closer to power the more he said he wanted to work with the Government<BR/><BR/>But what would the Conservatives have done differently ???<BR/><BR/>Speak up Mr OsbourneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37616656176083257752008-10-17T15:08:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:08:00.000+01:00The funny thing is, I've actually posted most of t...The funny thing is, I've actually posted most of the anonymous posts here today (off sick and bored at home), so if this Draper unit really does exist they're a bunch of lazy bastards! Get posting, Dolly, I'm doing all this for free!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33791493731399840332008-10-17T15:06:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:06:00.000+01:00Are you feeling OK, Strapworld?Are you feeling OK, Strapworld?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10250775820721388082008-10-17T15:05:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:05:00.000+01:00To consider that the majority, if not all, of the ...To consider that the majority, if not all, of the anonymous pro left observations are coming from that failed phsycologist, Draper, and his childish morons, being paid out of the public purse, in offices paid from the public purse shows just how low Brown can go!<BR/><BR/>Gordon Brown is a disgrace to democracy, to decency and I guess his father must be turning in his grave seeing what BROWN has turned into!<BR/><BR/>BROWN could, of course, order Draper out into the streets (or gutter, I should say). He could order honesty and truth to be the order of the day. But somehow I doubt that he has the guts or 'moral compass' to show such decency.<BR/><BR/>He has brought disgrace upon his high office.strapworldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18228784526399929300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81302390018713150992008-10-17T15:03:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:03:00.000+01:00But the point is that Tories have tended to say th...But the point is that Tories have tended to say that 'regulation' is by definition 'bad' because it fetters the free market. Have a look at 'The Wealth of Nations', for example. The current crisis shows that to be wrong as an ideological position, at least for the contemporary situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87847805239119072192008-10-17T15:00:00.000+01:002008-10-17T15:00:00.000+01:00Desperate stuff. Better = more effective, not more...Desperate stuff. Better = more effective, not more.<BR/><BR/>Funny how every single one of these comments is anonymous, isn't it?<BR/><BR/>just sayin'Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45277447268829759072008-10-17T14:58:00.000+01:002008-10-17T14:58:00.000+01:00Iain,That's a pretty facile defence, if you don't ...Iain,<BR/><BR/>That's a pretty facile defence, if you don't mind me saying. Is anyone saying they want 'worse' regulation? The point Paddy makes is a sound one. For years, Tories have been banging on about deregulation. Now all this happens and it's clear that there wasn't enough regulation, or rather enough effective regulation. The idea that it would have been helpful to have 'slashed' regulation has been shown to be foolish. And so, I'm afraid to say, are you on this thread.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23746396899686055712008-10-17T14:55:00.000+01:002008-10-17T14:55:00.000+01:00Hogwash, Iain. Your original post demonstrates how...Hogwash, Iain. Your original post demonstrates how desperate the right are on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26234263748403880182008-10-17T14:53:00.000+01:002008-10-17T14:53:00.000+01:00Paddy,You are absolutely spot on about Cameron's h...Paddy,<BR/><BR/>You are absolutely spot on about Cameron's hypocrisy. Basically, the Tory position since 1979 (deregulation, let markets run unfettered etc) has been blown out of the water and as a result they have absolutely nothing to say about the global financial crisis. It's not just that he's a shallow PR man or that Osborne's out of his depth, the fundamental Tory ideology of the last 30 years has been discredited. I almost feel sorry for him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63046181859853924992008-10-17T14:50:00.000+01:002008-10-17T14:50:00.000+01:00Hogwash Paddy. he has never said he wants more reg...Hogwash Paddy. he has never said he wants more regulation. He wants better regulation. That is very different.<BR/><BR/>This thread demonstrates how desperate the left are.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75725151400578220982008-10-17T14:46:00.000+01:002008-10-17T14:46:00.000+01:00It is of course all hypocritical nonsense from Cam...It is of course all hypocritical nonsense from Cameron.<BR/><BR/>A year ago he said at Conference:<BR/><BR/> “Every generation of Conservatives has to make the argument all over again for free enterprise, for freedom, for responsibility, for limited government.”<BR/><BR/> “I don't believe in an ever larger state doing more and more.”<BR/><BR/> “…this new world of freedom is having huge effects on business and our economy. Big business can now locate anywhere in the world, small businesses can find customers anywhere in the world and Britain has some great advantages in this globalised world. Not least because of the changes we made 15 or 20 years ago.” <BR/><BR/> “And I know that business wants to hear from the Conservative Party how we will reduce regulation and reduce taxation to give them more freedom in this new world… and we heard from Alan Duncan how we will introduce regulatory budgets to cut that regulation...” <BR/><BR/> “[We will] get tax and regulation down for the long term good of our economy and that is the modern Conservative change for this new world of freedom.”<BR/><BR/>The events of the last few months have shown undisputedly that what the corporate world needs is not, as Cameron a year ago tried to lead us to believe, less regulation but more. And now he is saying that too – what a hypocrite!Paddy Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17847108655078927970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68604600680283778022008-10-17T14:36:00.000+01:002008-10-17T14:36:00.000+01:00... mind you, he's got a point, you are a twat.... mind you, he's got a point, you are a twat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com