tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2546688756743740921..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Fred the Shred: When Heart Overcame HeadIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45929324113533539522009-02-27T22:49:00.000+00:002009-02-27T22:49:00.000+00:00One of your best ever posts. ExemplarOne of your best ever posts. Exemplar@molesworth_1https://www.blogger.com/profile/12278870362360637173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90146473610807614252009-02-27T18:36:00.000+00:002009-02-27T18:36:00.000+00:00Perhaps on reflection I was wrong earlier.So, by t...Perhaps on reflection I was wrong earlier.<BR/><BR/>So, by the way, can we also seize Alistair and Gordon's salaries and pensions for their mistakes too? And those of most of the senior civil servants in Treasury and FSA?<BR/><BR/>In principle its exactly the same but in practice its just a bigger hole - much much bigger<BR/><BR/>I feel a campaign coming on!!Cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852867933348403214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12905833035593095432009-02-27T18:21:00.000+00:002009-02-27T18:21:00.000+00:00I'm all in favour of this new 'no pensions for fai...I'm all in favour of this new 'no pensions for failure if paid out of taxpayers money' meme. This will decimate our future public sector pensions bill. Think of all the public employees who mess up their jobs. We won't have to pay them a penny when they retire. It'll be great. No pension for most of the current Labour govt, probably none for any politician. If pupils fail exams, no pension for teacher. Social worker fails to stop child abuse, no pension. Doctor makes medical mistake, patient dies, no pension. This is the way forward!Sobershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11407417389022146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21984115388359067642009-02-27T18:20:00.000+00:002009-02-27T18:20:00.000+00:00SFG will be paying nearly £300k in tax on his pens...SFG will be paying nearly £300k in tax on his pension income.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12257879069189214572009-02-27T15:26:00.000+00:002009-02-27T15:26:00.000+00:00Fred Goodwin received his knighthood from this gov...Fred Goodwin received his knighthood from this government "for services to banking."<BR/><BR/>As this has now been shown to be a false premise, would it be too much to expect Fred to hand it back?<BR/><BR/>Or has he no shame at all...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35817740070838781362009-02-27T14:20:00.000+00:002009-02-27T14:20:00.000+00:00This is truly to your credit Mr Dale. Listening t...This is truly to your credit Mr Dale. Listening to differing opinions and changing your mind accordingly when you read a better truth.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure we'd all like to see something like that in government...Breakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15636397909312743136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16632587943253594092009-02-27T13:59:00.000+00:002009-02-27T13:59:00.000+00:00A proper gent - I didn't really mean it.A proper gent - I didn't really mean it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26387261221755642692009-02-27T13:31:00.000+00:002009-02-27T13:31:00.000+00:00Two things that are refreshing about you:You let y...Two things that are refreshing about you:<BR/><BR/>You let your heart rule from time to time<BR/><BR/>You are not afraid to apologise<BR/><BR/>The sooner you get into parliament the better.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13196592908360647734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78376449211893811602009-02-27T12:53:00.000+00:002009-02-27T12:53:00.000+00:00Bob P - I like it. "A more thoughtful blethering t...Bob P - I like it. "A more thoughtful blethering twat than Cameron". We have the tag line for Prescott's blog at Go Fourth, I think.Jonny Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18440274325662944612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17300586191664619782009-02-27T12:46:00.000+00:002009-02-27T12:46:00.000+00:00Sir Fred Goodwin's pension is a distraction to...Sir Fred Goodwin's pension is a distraction to divert attention from Bank Bailout III (or is it IV)?<BR/><BR/>This is from RBS 2007 Accounts:<BR/><BR/>"All UK based directors, with the exception of Guy Whittaker, are members of The Royal Bank of Scotland Group Pension Fund ('the RBS Fund') and are contractually entitled to receive all pension benefits in accordance with its terms. The RBS Fund rules allow all members who retire early at the request of their employer to receive a pension based on accrued service with no discount applied for early retirement."<BR/><BR/>http://www.rbs.com/microsites/gra2007/governance/directors_remun_report/service_contracts.asp<BR/><BR/>===<BR/><BR/>Anyone with an iota of knowledge of how pension schemes work (that obviously excludes Myners, Brown, Prescott and Darling!) will know that to pay a pension for longer than had been anticipated will need a top-up to the fund, to compensate for 3 factors. In simplistic terms:<BR/><BR/>1) Pension to be paid for 10 years longer than anticipated.<BR/><BR/>2) 10 years less investment growth.<BR/><BR/>3) 10 years less contributions.<BR/><BR/>Obviously the actuarial assessment of the one-off cost of these three factors came to the GBP8million figure touted around.<BR/><BR/>It was his entitlement by right. If Myners could not figures this out, then he is an oaf! What did he do during his time at N M Rothschild, Gartmore, Bank of New York, Coutts and NatWest?<BR/><BR/>"Paul Myners was appointed Financial Services Secretary to the Treasury in October 2008. <BR/><BR/>Prior to this he was chairman of the Guardian Media Group, publisher of The Guardian and The Observer newspapers, and chairman of Land Securities Group. He is a former Chairman of Marks & Spencer and Deputy Chair of PowerGen. He held a number of third sector posts, including Chair of the Trustees of the Tate gallery and Chair of the The Low Pay Commission and the Personal Accounts Delivery Authority, all of which he relinquished on his appointment. <BR/><BR/>Paul worked as a teacher with the Inner London Education Authority from (1971-1972). From (1972-1975) he worked for The Daily Telegraph as a financial journalist, he then went to work for N M Rothschild & Sons merchant bank. In 1985, he moved to Gartmore, a pension fund manager, becoming its Chair in 1987. <BR/><BR/>He has held directorships with Bank of New York, IMRO, Bridgepoint, Coutts, Lloyd's Market Board, NatWest, O2 and Orange. <BR/><BR/>Paul was educated at Truro school and the University of London. He has an Honorary Doctorate in Law from the University of Exeter and is a Visiting Fellow at Nuffield College Oxford."yellowbellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12343868465109472378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38995005102937678012009-02-27T12:37:00.000+00:002009-02-27T12:37:00.000+00:00Sir Fred is blameless in all of this, why pick on ...Sir Fred is blameless <A HREF="http://curly15.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/sir-freds-finger/" REL="nofollow">in all of this</A>, why pick on the poor bloke?<BR/><BR/>OK , so he used 32 words to make one gesture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90680027221005364352009-02-27T11:54:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:54:00.000+00:00Well said Iain.The real issue, of course, is the r...Well said Iain.<BR/><BR/>The real issue, of course, is the rather more serious problem of the dodgy debt. Here are some rather interesting (and worrying) figures from the FT:<BR/><BR/>http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2970532c-0421-11de-845b-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1<BR/><BR/><I>But now, at long last, one shard of reality has just emerged to piece this gloom. In recent weeks, bankers at places such as JPMorgan Chase and Wachovia have been quietly sifting data trying to ascertain what has happened to those swathes of troubled CDO of ABS.<BR/>The conclusions are stunning. From late 2005 to the middle of 2007, around $450bn of CDO of ABS were issued, of which about one third were created from risky mortgage-backed bonds (known as mezzanine CDO of ABS) and much of the rest from safer tranches (high grade CDO of ABS.)<BR/>Out of that pile, around $305bn of the CDOs are now in a formal state of default, with the CDOs underwritten by Merrill Lynch accounting for the biggest pile of defaulted assets, followed by UBS and Citi.<BR/>The real shocker, though, is what has happened after those defaults. JPMorgan estimates that $102bn of CDOs has already been liquidated. The average recovery rate for super-senior tranches of debt – or the stuff that was supposed to be so ultra safe that it always carried a triple A tag – has been 32 per cent for the high grade CDOs. With mezzanine CDO’s, though, recovery rates on those AAA assets have been a mere 5 per cent...</I>Nigelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18171835878570773595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51257199118998200792009-02-27T11:51:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:51:00.000+00:00Good man Iain. I genuinely am worried about the to...Good man Iain. <BR/><BR/>I genuinely am worried about the toxic debts and global unemployment figures.<BR/><BR/>$3.5 trillion isn't an injection - it's deferred taxation. The talking heads predicting growth at the back end of 2010 remind me of that standard analysis: 'well, they would say that though wouldn't they?'Dick the Prickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02683095612320513712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50826159218542351812009-02-27T11:30:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:30:00.000+00:00Jonny Mac, I didn't mistake you for anything. Howe...Jonny Mac, I didn't mistake you for anything. However, the fact that Prescott has thought through the inevitable consequence of ripping up the contract, rather than just spouting nonsense without thinking, merely goes to show he is a more thoughtful blethering twat than Cameron. Whether that is better or not is a matter of conjecture, of course.Bob Piperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13792439016502695274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53338750617667982362009-02-27T11:28:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:28:00.000+00:00well done, Iain. These show trials are rather rep...well done, Iain. These show trials are rather repulsive. Brits still seem to prefer burning down their neighbour's house to building up their own.<BR/><BR/>I haven't heard any MPs calling for their own pensions to be linked to share prices / national average earnings in the name of "fairness".disgustedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18217426208569128474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61327274913578768592009-02-27T11:21:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:21:00.000+00:00One clearly can not go seizing past salaries, bonu...One clearly can not go seizing past salaries, bonuses, pensions etc that have been lawfully agreed, even if not deserved, without making a travesty of the law.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand one can ask all those who have been responsible for the crisis to voluntarily hand back bonuses/ pensions/ etc- of course if those asking did it themselves they would have alot more credibility.<BR/><BR/>Gordon Brown should hand back his last 10 years salary and his pension rights, to show a good example, as he was clearly in great part responsible for this crisis. Then he can fairly criticize anyone also responsible who does not do the same.JoeFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426110406226256686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81732296890124690342009-02-27T11:20:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:20:00.000+00:00This uber costly nulab fiasco brings up a series o...This uber costly nulab fiasco brings up a series of very interesting points about the BBC, their efforts to cover up for Brown and nulabour and the Tory fear of the BBC and their inability to get their message past the BBC brick wall surrounding Brown and nulabour. The BBC are experts in intimidating and diverting any Tory who gets on the BBC,<BR/>the Tories seem to lack fire and determination and appear frightened of the BBC interviewers, always defensive and nervous even, its strange isnt it that the Tories have never managed to show up the BBC for the nulabour supporters they are?<BR/>The BBC tactics are always the same so why havent the Tories found a way to outflank them?cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088596240127998878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54220318573554267452009-02-27T11:13:00.001+00:002009-02-27T11:13:00.001+00:00Also like the quote. What is often forgotten is th...Also like the quote. What is often forgotten is that the law provides the shelter under which we enjoy freedom.<BR/><BR/>Whilst I'm sure Fred the Shred's pension isn't an issue that Labour have manufactured, it is both an embarrassment, a distraction and a useful convenience at the same time.<BR/><BR/>We need to be very careful now, as the law may soon be all the holds back the state as it strikes out at all of us in desperation.<BR/><BR/><I>PS If anyone wants to make real trouble they could suggest Lord Mandelmort hands back his pay off from the EU.</I>Man in a Shedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00990902055642035293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5564809219210526912009-02-27T11:13:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:13:00.000+00:00Why don't we just have a good old bipartisan pop a...Why don't we just have a good old bipartisan pop at Fred: <BR/><BR/>http://thestupidtimes.blogspot.com/2009/02/ex-rbs-chief-goodwin-sends-government.html<BR/><BR/>Whatever the government has messed up, this is his problem at the end of the day.The Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09856945943312220105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39783224647960638112009-02-27T11:05:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:05:00.000+00:00Bob P, please don't mistake me for a Tory. If Came...Bob P, please don't mistake me for a Tory. If Cameron said that, then it was a twattish thing to say. But Prescott's "let him sue" position is so ill-conceived, that he remains several heads in front of Cameron in the Goodwin Twat Stakes. And the nature of the naked politics of it - let's bully Goodwin to deflect attention from how we ballsed up - is very nasty.Jonny Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18440274325662944612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26547128986116590742009-02-27T11:01:00.001+00:002009-02-27T11:01:00.001+00:00By the way I also agree with the comments above th...By the way I also agree with the comments above that this is a diversion tactic. <BR/><BR/>The PM would not want too much attention paid to a policy that is secretly pumping billions into Scotland to support jobs so close to his own constituency.<BR/><BR/>Of course, it's all in the public interest, dontcha know.Cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852867933348403214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68252126893823995192009-02-27T11:01:00.000+00:002009-02-27T11:01:00.000+00:00If only others could admit their mistakes so well....If only others could admit their mistakes so well. well done old bean.Wyrdtimeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16640021224868439090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76827267693929418682009-02-27T10:59:00.000+00:002009-02-27T10:59:00.000+00:00@ Piper"Prescott was simply following the lead giv...@ Piper<BR/><BR/><I>"Prescott was simply following the lead given by one David Cameron"</I> <BR/><BR/>Oh yeah? So Prescott agrees with Cameron and has now crossed the floor of the House? What else does Prescott agree with?<BR/><BR/>Blethering Twat...Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24647894367339077672009-02-27T10:57:00.000+00:002009-02-27T10:57:00.000+00:00Nice man that you are, I think you are resiling to...Nice man that you are, I think you are resiling too soon Iain. There are two issues here.<BR/><BR/>First, Sir Fred has an original pension that is his and it should not be for the state to interfere in that. It would be the illegal appropriation of property. In any case he would win any legal appeal.<BR/><BR/>The real issue is the apparent top up. It appears that this payment was approved by Myers. There are several issues here:-<BR/><BR/>1 Last night the Government were spinning that Myers was falsely told that this was an unavoidable contractual entitlement. So the question is who told him this and what checks were made by him and his officials. If they just accepted this at face value without basic due diligence then this was grossly negligent. If it was the officials fault then then should be disciplined and Myers, as responsible Minister, should resign.<BR/><BR/>2 if the Government line that they were misled is true, then someone somewhere misled them. That person may, depending upon the full facts, have committed a criminal offence. So have the Government reported this to police and asked for a criminal investigation? f not, why not? Millions of pounds of money have potentially been lost.<BR/><BR/>POolitically this can also all be clearted up very quickly. Let'ssee:-<BR/><BR/>1 the briefing note that went to Myers before he approved it<BR/><BR/>2 his approval<BR/><BR/>3 the minutes of meetings/ emails/ letters in which the alleged falsehood was conveyed to his DepartmentCynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852867933348403214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90722882053087733632009-02-27T10:45:00.000+00:002009-02-27T10:45:00.000+00:00The pension story is a clear smokescreen to cover ...The pension story is a clear smokescreen to cover some very uncomfortable facts about the prime mentalist and his close involvement in the RBS fiasco, hundreds of billions of taxpayer pounds are at real risk of being p****d up the wall for no benefit, one of the original excuses for the bail out was jobs, tens of thousands are going to be shed, the toxic sludge scam may well break Britain for a couple of generations!<BR/>The BBC are leading a concerted deflection/smokescreen effort and the no10 spinners are using their dark powers to muddy the waters and draw attention away form the real scandal and it aint Fred the shreds payoff which Brown&Co must have known about.<BR/>The BBC is trying to smear the Tories already for bringing up the facts behind the stupendous series of blunders by the crazy loon at no10.<BR/>What did Brown know and when did he know it?<BR/>What orders did Brown give and when did he order it?<BR/>Did the government excersise due dilligence in checking the details of the bailout?<BR/>Simple questions to ask and simple evidence to dig out, I would hope that DD and GO are directing a tsunami of FOI requests at the nulab regime at this very moment!<BR/>The truth is out there and its attainable, the obstacle of the BBC has to be overcome but that can be done if the right tricks are used.cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06088596240127998878noreply@blogger.com