tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post247985286301788919..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Gordon's Imperfect Economic Storm ApproachesIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75884480745428169992008-07-19T23:17:00.000+01:002008-07-19T23:17:00.000+01:00Ken from Glos wrote: "G.B = nasty and devious."Per...<I>Ken from Glos wrote: "G.B = nasty and devious."</I><BR/><BR/>Personally, I think "G.B." means "Gargantuan Borrower.John M Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251285057595626917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17980184806150642222008-07-19T23:15:00.000+01:002008-07-19T23:15:00.000+01:00Non @ 9.52 wrote: "Gordon is a Moron would make a ...<I>Non @ 9.52 wrote: "Gordon is a Moron would make a great name for a tune."</I><BR/><BR/>Could be. Meanwhile, we already have <A HREF="http://wwwjohn-m-ward.blogspot.com/2008/07/going-down-with-gordon-brown.html" REL="nofollow">Going Down with Gordon Brown</A> and <A HREF="http://wwwjohn-m-ward.blogspot.com/2008/07/always-frown.html" REL="nofollow">Always a Frown With Gordon Brown</A>. Any budding songwriters here care to make it a hat trick? You already have the title...John M Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251285057595626917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25274151398991197252008-07-19T17:33:00.000+01:002008-07-19T17:33:00.000+01:00any idea how big their 'overdraft' is Its not thei...any idea how big their 'overdraft' is <BR/><BR/><BR/>Its not their its OURS, or rather our grandchildrensGuthrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17499979740864497256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34649154974105782492008-07-19T16:34:00.000+01:002008-07-19T16:34:00.000+01:00Iain,I have written a long and largely swear-word ...Iain,<BR/><BR/>I have written <A HREF="http://devilskitchen.me.uk/2008/07/where-will-money-come-from.html" REL="nofollow">a long and largely swear-word free expansion of this topic</A>, also tying in the private banking sector, that may interest you.<BR/><BR/>DKDevil's Kitchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13832949569501846730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44000406290128178772008-07-19T14:15:00.000+01:002008-07-19T14:15:00.000+01:00Jess the Dog - Yep. Can't turn a business around ...Jess the Dog - Yep. Can't turn a business around until you change the management. <BR/><BR/>Tom Harris - Didn't realise that you were an MP! If so you are part of the problem. In fact as you are Labour MP you ARE the problem. <BR/><BR/>Brown is no good because he thinks he's an economist. The situation he's got us into is because he has no idea about simple prudent money management. <BR/><BR/>He's taxed and spent other people's income. Worse yet he's taxed and spent capital - stamp duty, pensions tax etc. Spending capital is disasterous because it destroys the potential for investment. He's borrowed on balance sheet in times when he should be building up reserves and reducing debt. He's borrowed a shed load more off balance sheet. He's taken on liabilities that are not the business of the state - Northern Rock - which should have been allowed to fail. He claims to have 'reinvested' this cash but since most of Government expenditure is wages he has not re-invested at all - he's just spent it. All governments (all - right or left wing) are totally and absolutely useless at the efficient allocation of capital, but he's proved this in spades.<BR/><BR/>He's condemned millions to benefit dependency. And whilst doing all this he's lied and deceived as a technique for political points scoring and news management and conning the electorate.<BR/><BR/>He is an absolute disgrace.<BR/><BR/>BTW I live in Suffolk and I really really hope I catch sight of the prick as he drives through here on the way to Southwold. I have been nicely ageing some eggs.<BR/><BR/>Lastly. I think he is genuinely a decent man (anything being better than the preening snake oil salesman that was his predecessor). But he is deluded and essentially deceitful. His major flaw is that he really wanted to be PM. This, by definition, makes him totally unsuitable for the job, and so it has been proved.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78864735304237236782008-07-19T13:23:00.000+01:002008-07-19T13:23:00.000+01:00will hutton has been wrong on almost every stateme...will hutton has been wrong on almost every statement he has ever uttered. the man is a complete tosser!<BR/><BR/>Why anyone should listen to him is beyond sense. BUT there again as he is always propping up Broon and his incompetents the BEEB will be there knocking on his door.<BR/><BR/>Hutton should be shown the door and sent off to Afghanistan to do something useful for this country!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62286769567730599862008-07-19T11:31:00.000+01:002008-07-19T11:31:00.000+01:00I predict that the beginning of the end for the UK...I predict that the beginning of the end for the UK aspect of the downturn will be the ousting of Labour from office, by 2010 at the latest. Labour will be wiped out as a political party, as they no longer have a mass labour movement or ideology as they did in the early 80s to keep the party going.<BR/><BR/>Things are only going to get worse - the mortgage market has been allowed to collapse, this has crippled the housebuilding industry, food and fuel prices are rocketing and the latest warning is on the price of gas. <BR/><BR/>What do we do as consumers and taxpayers? It is galling to listen to calls to tighten one's belt when utility companies are making huge profits, MPs continue to dodge the worst effects of the crunch by claiming expenses that are denied to the rest of us, public sector workers are threatening strike action over pay, and council tax will rise as costs are pushed back onto taxpayers.<BR/><BR/>I think that we should fight back. We should hold a Consumers and Taxpayers Strike. For one month, we withhold payment on mortgages, utilities bills and similar bills (licence fee payments) and council tax. All organisations are dependent on cash flow for profitability and heavily exposed to the cost of debt if cash flow suffers. This would cause a temporary cash flow crisis if tens or hundreds of thousands defaulted for one month, and would send a clear message to politicians, banks, utility companies and others that they cannot simply pass the buck onto the rest of us. As with any mass action, it is impossible to chase those who default en masse, unlike chasing individuals. Bring it on!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25736971923800865732008-07-19T11:29:00.000+01:002008-07-19T11:29:00.000+01:00chris paul 11.06Yeah, right, let's just follow the...chris paul 11.06<BR/><BR/>Yeah, right, let's just follow the Will Hutton line. He's the prat who backed Brown whilst he economically raped the country's exchequer to pay for his 'benefits' votes.<BR/><BR/>Chris, 10 years down the line there will be NO welfare state. The UK can no longer afford one just as the US government finances have and will continue to be broken on the back of Medicare.<BR/><BR/>You borrow from a position of strength, that's the idea of an economic cycle. The only result of borrowing now is a rise in interest rates because the government takes a bigger slice of the monies available. The rest have to fight over it!<BR/><BR/>You may have a political brain but you sure don't have a clue about economics - much like your beloved Will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75299299131622675012008-07-19T11:24:00.000+01:002008-07-19T11:24:00.000+01:00Tom Harris said... Sorry, Iain, but do you have in...Tom Harris said... <BR/>Sorry, Iain, but do you have inside information to the effect that inflation is going to reach anywhere near the double-digit levels reached under the Tories? <BR/><BR/><BR/>You're an MP, Tom Harris. When did you last buy or rent a house or flat and have to actually pay the rent or mortgage yourself as opposed to the taxpayer picking up the tab?<BR/><BR/>House price inflation - which is excluded from the government's inflation rate - has gone through the roof thanks to competition generated by our huge level of uncontrolled inward migration.<BR/><BR/>I rented a private flat but had to give up and return to live with my mum because my rent was so high. A place of my own is an impossible dream. <BR/><BR/>My mum says the massive increase in house prices has taken mortgages way above the amount she had to pay for an average mortgage on an average terraced house when mortgage rates were 15%<BR/><BR/>My brother is paying £1200 a month mortgage for a tiny, tatty flat, despite low mortgage rates. My mum paid about £1200 a month for a large, three bedroomed house in a good area when mortgage rates hit 15% - and the rate was reduced after a while. My brother's mortgage is never going to be reduced.<BR/><BR/>The government has just switched inflation in the housing market from mortgages to house prices - and made it worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31763037788044731612008-07-19T11:17:00.000+01:002008-07-19T11:17:00.000+01:00Astro-Turf Lawnmower said...1. Government borrowin...Astro-Turf Lawnmower said...<BR/><BR/>1. Government borrowing on this scale ....<BR/><BR/>Agree with everything you say but one thing you don't mention is the massive effect these losses from repossessions are going to cause banks. <BR/><BR/>Most are already insolvent as they stuck their snouts into the US mortgage debacle (and it's NOT just sub-prime!), they're hanging over the precipice and face massive losses within the UK both on residential mortgages and commercial lending to the likes of Barratt/Taylor Woodrow, etc.<BR/><BR/>In 2 yeasr, the only 2 banks left in the provate sector will be Lloyds and, possibly, HSBC. Although if the credit derivative bubble blows, HSBC could disappear overnight.<BR/><BR/>Welcome to the Third World UK. Just hope Bob M helps us out and all those African contries relieve us of the debt mountain we've built up!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5860052190775697912008-07-19T11:06:00.000+01:002008-07-19T11:06:00.000+01:00What have you missed? Well the essence of the deba...What have you missed? Well the essence of the debate is what. Biggest borrowing since 1946? Pah! Biggest % of GDP borrowing under Labour but still not as much as same under last Tory government.<BR/><BR/>As Will Hutton said on Newsnight borrowing more is the RIGHT THING TO DO at this point. And the "should have put money aside" line is disingenuous given recent Tory performances in government.<BR/><BR/>The massive investment in schools and hospitals and railways that has been achieved was catch up for 18 years of running down everything in the public services under the Magwitch. It was necessary.Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84545075225790061492008-07-19T11:03:00.000+01:002008-07-19T11:03:00.000+01:00Don't blame me - I voted for Major.I don't think w...Don't blame me - I voted for Major.<BR/><BR/>I don't think we will need to go to the IMF - borrowing lots of money would not do any good, except give us a temporary illusion of prosperity to avoid addressing our problems for another year. Aside of course from the moral implications of grabbing, for Labour's rescue, money meant for much poorer lands.<BR/><BR/>What we need to do is hardly rocket science - cut useless public spending, reduce taxes and end crippling over-regulation. A lot of it could be done relatively painlessly, though some of it might involve a great deal of short-term pain. For instance, if we cut our foreign aid budget, dismatle ID cards end our net contribution to the corrupt and useless EU and only pass EU laws when they are of benefit to this country, we would have done a good part of it.<BR/><BR/>Also, we need to attack ambulance-chasing lawyers and the HSE to improve the climate for business, but that's another story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76474743860947689672008-07-19T10:35:00.000+01:002008-07-19T10:35:00.000+01:00Y'know Tom Harris, go and take a look at the cours...Y'know Tom Harris, go and take a look at the course of inflation from 1947 to 2008. You will see it peaked in 1976/78, under waht was a labour/tory heath quasi socialist hegenomy. The last Labour PM (Callaghan?) seemed to vaguely grasp what was goingon but it was Thatcher (and Regan) who adopted policies that controlled money supply and government spending and agreesive policies that won the Cold War in 1989 that eventually conquered inflation. Brown inherited the fruits of this and has destroyed most of the good work. He is a prat. <BR/><BR/>The painful (and I accept to a agree overdone ) industrial reconstruction policies of Thatcher/Major have not been capitalised upon by Brown. Instead of re-investing the surplus capital that it generated he has sepnt it. Just spent it. It's gone forever. <BR/><BR/>So we will now have to set about again reining in the gross overhead of Statism so that industry and commerce can generate surpluses that will be required to provide the jobs.<BR/><BR/>IMHO as a country we have been living above our means since 1997 - and earlier. Globalisation will bring about a levelling up of living standards (even Africa) and for some countries that will mean a reduction, e.g. UK. We just canot afford to have millions of productive people living on benefits. Benefits that are set at a level higher than which employers can pay wages if they wish to compete internationally. Similarly redistributive benefits like working tax credit sequester income and capital which then cannot be re-invested or makes those taxed workers equally uncompetitive.<BR/><BR/>Socialism has failed. It will always fail. The 'project' has failed. It's failed because it is a philosophy. The alternative free markets (or better anglo saxon libertarian judeo christian free market capitalism with thrift responsibilty and compassion and the rule of common law) just works. It is not a philosophy. It is a description of what works. And the sooner that prats like Brown get their heads round this the better.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49710266935605328622008-07-19T10:32:00.000+01:002008-07-19T10:32:00.000+01:00Anonymous said..."I fear that they will turn to ex...<B>Anonymous said...</B><BR/><BR/>"I fear that they will turn to extreme parties or solutions."<BR/><BR/>I certainly hope so. It is much needed.<BR/><BR/>No country can possibly go through the disaster of the Thatcher-Brown years and expect to emerge without big trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56267853103496770292008-07-19T10:27:00.000+01:002008-07-19T10:27:00.000+01:00Anonymous said..."So why did we all suffer thru th...<B>Anonymous said...</B><BR/><BR/>"So why did we all suffer thru the 80's and early 90's putting all the 60's Labour mismanagement"<BR/><BR/>Ha ha. Very funny. Blame the evil Thatcher government for the disasters of the 80s and 90s.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59390255713432985882008-07-19T09:46:00.000+01:002008-07-19T09:46:00.000+01:00What do you mean by highest since 1946? Do you mea...What do you mean by highest since 1946? Do you mean as an absolute number (if so does it take into account inflation etc?) or do you mean as a percentage of total expenditure?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62528485768497239342008-07-19T09:36:00.000+01:002008-07-19T09:36:00.000+01:00The BBC is controlled by Comon Purpose who, itself...The BBC is controlled by Comon Purpose who, itself, is controlled by the EU. We all know that the EU is dominated by the left!<BR/><BR/>end of story.<BR/><BR/>end of our liberty.<BR/><BR/>Goodbye and goodnight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42382042592726272072008-07-19T09:05:00.000+01:002008-07-19T09:05:00.000+01:00The airports are working. You can still get out. ...The airports are working. You can still get out. Once the EU takes over, you might not be able to. Take your money with you.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69168566271084347662008-07-19T08:49:00.000+01:002008-07-19T08:49:00.000+01:00Very interesting to see Labour and its supporters ...Very interesting to see Labour and its supporters are in denial about how serious the economic situation is and the mismangement and incompetence of Brown's time as Chancellor and just keep "harping on" about how much worse it was under the "Tories" and how high unemployment and inflation was then than now. That was over 11 years ago comrades get over it ! Your man has been found out and ultimately found to be incompetent to actually manage the economy. Its becuase of his high spending plans on a unreformed health and education system for very little return and his encouragement of a bloated state sector and statist system that the country is in the mess it is. So stop making excuses and face the unpalatalble facts - Labour has screwed up the country's economy big time and the main offender is Brown. the sooner the country is rid of the lot of you the better. The only trouble is just like 1979 the Conservatives will be left to sort the mess out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28558442658257236452008-07-19T08:21:00.000+01:002008-07-19T08:21:00.000+01:00As I mentioned on the Clegg post the unknown here ...As I mentioned on the Clegg post the unknown here is the attitude of the EU Commission. We are in stage two of EMU. What if the EU brings an action in the ECJ to force us to reduce the deficit to levels we agreed to adhere to?Richard Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02021997075923737760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30407239108677661322008-07-19T07:48:00.000+01:002008-07-19T07:48:00.000+01:00I've continually said it - Brown understands nothi...I've continually said it - Brown understands nothing of economics, of markets, or of the human psyche. He has no principles, and I'm perfectly sure has absolutely no idea why it has all gone so wrong.Naturally, neither does anyone else in the government.<BR/>Interestingly, I would suggest that the turnaround in Tory fortunes was a leading indicator of how bad people thought it was going to get - bit like the stockmarket turning down long before anyone realises things are bad and up before it is apparent things are getting better. The collective madness of crowds is a wonderful thing.....kinglearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10252474133821652670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56452279364423320902008-07-19T06:01:00.000+01:002008-07-19T06:01:00.000+01:00Iain / Everyone, don't despair! Don't be so gloomy...Iain / Everyone, don't despair! Don't be so gloomy! Courtesy of the Brown Broadcasting Corporation, there is some good news!: <BR/><BR/>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7513563.stmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31225537262584757462008-07-19T05:27:00.000+01:002008-07-19T05:27:00.000+01:00Spot on Johnny Norfolk - the BBC are reporting not...Spot on Johnny Norfolk - the BBC are reporting nothing of this Economic nightmare.<BR/><BR/>Thankfully I emigrated to escape it. I managed to re-tune my TV the other day to rid it of BBC, replacing it with a South American shopping channel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38253640123127015972008-07-19T05:05:00.000+01:002008-07-19T05:05:00.000+01:00Sorry, Iain, but do you have inside information to...Sorry, Iain, but do you have inside information to the effect that inflation is going to reach anywhere near the double-digit levels reached under the Tories? <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Allow me to assist...unemployment is the one you remind us of or maybe interest rates . Inflation is the one at 15% when the dead were unburied under Callaghan<BR/>These are like magic spells to you aren`t they , and on this occassion you got them confused.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15637655826329452952008-07-19T04:56:00.000+01:002008-07-19T04:56:00.000+01:00...I think thats a pretty good summary Iain. Why t......I think thats a pretty good summary Iain. Why then do you expect Cameron to cut taxes? Yes I know the theory , low tax driven growth will replenish the coffers .<BR/>Maybe eventually , but in the short term its just a theory which did not work for Bush.<BR/><BR/>Any prospective government ,right now ,who did not warn of possible tax rises would simply not be a Conservative from whom we expect responsible management of the public purse.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.com