tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2465323570517383601..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: More Haste Less SpeedIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger119125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69926083838416443192009-07-01T23:58:05.008+01:002009-07-01T23:58:05.008+01:00Carl said....
"Occasionally the actuation sp...Carl said....<br /><br />"Occasionally the actuation speed is set to well below the speed limit."<br /><br />Yeah... granted - but - surely that would infer that the speed limit is erm... dangerously high - at a blind junction let's say?<br /><br />It seems that many council traffic depts aren't consistent with this - and since we are on about stopping distances n all, some consistency about the sign distance versus the trigger speed should apply - aren't there rules? <br /><br />All I know is that it's damn annoying to be told to "SLOW DOWN!" when you are doing two thirds of the legal limit on this stretch of road.Gordon the Fence Post Tortoisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04426735271858751220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25618716558622823202009-07-01T22:26:47.361+01:002009-07-01T22:26:47.361+01:00Tom said...
"I believe the flashy signs work...Tom said... <br />"I believe the flashy signs work to a certain extent - but the folk that set them up need to make sure that they're set to sensible speeds - there's a 30 mph sign just outside Bradford on Avon that triggers at just under 15 mph - I know becuase I drove round and round slowing down on each pass to test it ... sad, but true.<br />If warning signs are routinely wrong - people will ignore them."<br /><br />Occasionally the actuation speed is set to well below the speed limit. The intention then is not to let drivers know they are exceeding the speed limit but simply to remind them what the speed limit is. The flashing sign does this much more effectively than the simple speed limit reminder sign.Carlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81088184422207924862009-07-01T18:59:32.566+01:002009-07-01T18:59:32.566+01:00I believe the flashy signs work to a certain exten...I believe the flashy signs work to a certain extent - but the folk that set them up need to make sure that they're set to sensible speeds - there's a 30 mph sign just outside Bradford on Avon that triggers at just under 15 mph - I know becuase I drove round and round slowing down on each pass to test it ... sad, but true.<br /><br />If warning signs are routinely wrong - people will ignore them. <br /><br />Common sense seems in short supply both in terms of what the overall effects of speed cameras are - and of speed limits in general.<br /><br />Tailgating, jaywalking and bicycle boobery should be offences that are enforced just as rigorously as speed limits.<br /><br />I am old enough to remember when bicycling at night without lights got you a £5 fine - about £60 now - when was the last time you saw a cyclist prosecuted for no lights eh?Gordon the Fence Post Tortoisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04426735271858751220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33678851759689219122009-07-01T18:30:08.006+01:002009-07-01T18:30:08.006+01:00An advanced driver and a police officer who would ...An advanced driver and a police officer who would rather be somewhere else will patronise you for two hours. They'll show a film depicting the devastating impact an accident has on a speeding driver (though failing to mention that pedestrians can be at fault too, irrespective of the driver's speed).<br /><br />Grit your teeth and go, then have a good moan for all our entertainment afterwards.Matthew Ruddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05842392964784000029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24391809081822006742009-07-01T15:41:22.592+01:002009-07-01T15:41:22.592+01:00I have! Too much acceleration away from roadworks ...I have! Too much acceleration away from roadworks in Melton Mowbray. Anyway, it was me plus about 30 others being lectured by first off a police officer about speed limits signage. Quite enlightening actually. then someone talking about stats re road accidents, deaths and braking distances relating to speed. It is a re-education re parts of the highway code and information regarding speeding and braking, distances, accidents and so on. I must say that it was not the boring load of bollocks I was expecting, but a useful and educational experience. I have hardly broken the law since then. When I have it was to get out of a situation on a motorway (not much fun actually being sideswiped by a left hand drive truck on the A14 when you can hit 90 plus and get away).Dr Evilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176521760477086914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34042727477827002262009-07-01T14:01:27.986+01:002009-07-01T14:01:27.986+01:00LBS...
"Gatso" cameras are only type-ap...LBS...<br /><br />"Gatso" cameras are only type-approved for speed checking from the rear of a vehicle. However, "Truvelo" cameras work from the front. They are both yellow boxes, the Gatso being slightly larger. As to "Redspeed", which is a much smaller device I'm unsure of the working direction.<br /><br />Then there's "Specs" - the dreaded "yellow vulture" average speed system, which only seems to be sited to work from the front of the vehicle.<br /><br />HTH. :-)Pogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812765444160924585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12685503432162464482009-07-01T13:07:42.091+01:002009-07-01T13:07:42.091+01:00They do not tell you the criteria for offering a c...They do not tell you the criteria for offering a course. My offence very similar to yours & I was not offered a course.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01767196721907990117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82567164477346048002009-07-01T11:01:54.307+01:002009-07-01T11:01:54.307+01:00@Anon 30 June 1.50 p.m.
Yes, that's the one. (...@Anon 30 June 1.50 p.m.<br />Yes, that's the one. (I think it's illegal to use it in France.)<br /><br />I am still hoping to learn if it is true - or an urban myth - that Gatso cameras catch you only if you are driving <i>away</i> from them. <br />???Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25013321210413597392009-07-01T10:42:17.778+01:002009-07-01T10:42:17.778+01:00How many less people speed on roads where each car...<i>How many less people speed on roads where each car's speed is flashed in big red numbers as they pass by? 100% I would say.</i><br /><br />A dual carriageway near where I used to live had a 40 mph limit: they installed flashing digits that fed back measured speed. The consequence was that at 1-2 a.m. motorbikers would descend en masse, noisily accelerating to register ton-ups and competing for the highest speed recorded. Enough to wake you on a hot summer night when your windows are open, and only outdone by the hour long circling of the police helicopter doing night training flights - not that they ever nabbed any bikers.It doesn't add up...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70487415176380371212009-07-01T08:45:09.638+01:002009-07-01T08:45:09.638+01:00Granted speed is a contributory factor to the exte...Granted speed is a contributory factor to the extent of damage should an incident occur but it is not a causal factor. <br /><br />Really - why aren't more pedestrians and cyclists nicked for their foolish and dangerous behaviour?<br /><br />If all cars stopped there'd be no accidents ? <br /><br />I suppose if the progression towards sharia law continues we'll eventually get to see (infidel) car owners prosecuted becuase a (moslem) pedestrian walked into their parked vehicle. If you've spent any time in Saudi Arabia - you'll know what I'm on about :-)Gordon the Fence Post Tortoisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04426735271858751220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5835235838805625412009-07-01T07:53:54.970+01:002009-07-01T07:53:54.970+01:00The course content can be summarised in one simple...The course content can be summarised in one simple Newtonian equation. E=0.5MV^2. Or if you hit someone at 40 mph you will transfer 4 times the energy to their fragile body that you would if you hit them at 20 mph.<br /><br />An argument for better school science education, perhaps?John Woolmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14103272578479980723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80173787034810298722009-06-30T23:02:29.148+01:002009-06-30T23:02:29.148+01:00I have to wholeheatedly agree with tapestry on the...I have to wholeheatedly agree with tapestry on the speeding camera and safty issue apart from one point - that this process of waste is popular - not in my neck of the woods mate!<br /><br />It is seen for what it is - bureaucratic peculation or municipal banditry.Gordon the Fence Post Tortoisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04426735271858751220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28113700842599899932009-06-30T22:43:31.992+01:002009-06-30T22:43:31.992+01:0025% lower reoffending rate?! John Shortland write...25% lower reoffending rate?! John Shortland writes.<br /><br />So he means that for 75% the speed course makes no difference, and in most cases it has to be said the speeding offences committed presenet no danger to anyone anyway. Good drivers are being netted as often as bad drivers. <br /><br />How many less people speed on roads where each car's speed is flashed in big red numbers as they pass by? 100% I would say.<br /><br />But where is the profit in that?<br /><br />I am in favour of safer driving and people going on courses, but selecting the candidates simply by virtue of their having stumbled over a speed limit by 5 mph or so, or their lack of GBP 35, seems a waste of the educational resource being made available. <br /><br />If safety courses are proved to reduce accidents (which seems likely) then accident-prone drivers should be detected by the fact that they are taking part in road incidents, accidents or collisions, or any way other than this hopelessly untargeted method. <br /><br />People who habitually tailgate at speed, for example could be usefully detected by cameras and invited with inducement to attend a safety course.<br /><br />Most speeding can be dealt with by informing the driver that he is speeding, as in most cases the driver doesn't realise he is speeding. <br /><br />With all the electronic devices available to man these days, why on earth are we still having to take our eyes off the road and look down at a display to find out what speed we are driving at? If roadside speed flashers are not going to be provided by concerned locals or central government, then vehicles should be informed electronically of the speed limit, and they in turn should tell their drivers how they are performing either with sound or light flashes.<br /><br />The problem is that governments prefer to create jobs, raise money and make people feel guilty. If speeding was dealt with as it could be, the bureaucratic speeding game would be over.<br /><br />Minor speeding offences (depending on road situation) are rarely dangerous, and making them the primary government intervention in road safety is pretty hopeless as a way to make roads safer, making the driver bureaucratically aware and not road aware.<br /><br />As far as I know the government speed programme in total has increased accidents not reduced them, as drivers are being encouraged to focus on one single aspect of their driving, speed, when there are many aspects to safe driving. <br /><br />It's 1950s bureaucracy run riot, and a dereliction of duty by government to waste so many resources, inconveniencing its citizenry and completely missing the real target of safety.<br /><br />But then what government initiative has ever been effective in anything, you have to ask? Other than taxing you and wasting your money. The extraordinary thing is that in Britain the process of waste is extremely popular.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78162597668086127892009-06-30T22:19:50.889+01:002009-06-30T22:19:50.889+01:00At 3 a.m. a drunk wanders out in front of you. Dri...<b>At 3 a.m. a drunk wanders out in front of you. Driving at 40 mph you will almost certainly kill him;</b><br /><br /><br />This is called natural selection. Don't get so drunk that you can't control your actions.<br /><br />Next?Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89215138042832852612009-06-30T22:13:42.398+01:002009-06-30T22:13:42.398+01:00The total percentage of deaths caused by statistic...The total percentage of deaths caused by statistics quoted to support various claims (drink,smoking,excessive speed, obesity, drunk driving, global warming etc etc) somehow manages to total in the region of 150%. <br /><br />OK I made this up, but then so do the tossers who quote these statistics in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26023393977493250812009-06-30T22:03:28.724+01:002009-06-30T22:03:28.724+01:00@Jon...
Rule #1 of statistics... "Correlatio...@Jon...<br /><br />Rule #1 of statistics... "Correlation does not imply causation".<br /><br />@Forlornhope... So? At worst, 17% of those killed on the road have "exceeding the speed limit" as a contributory factor (STATS19) - and of that 17% how many are also drunk, drugged, driving stolen cars and trying to excape the police, etc? Never heard of the concept of "an accident"? <br /><br />To put the road stats into perspective, what about the couple of thousand who are killed in accidents in the home? Ban homes? The thousand or so who are killed by falling down stairs? Ban stairs? The 20,000 odd who are killed by hospital-acquired infections? Ban hospitals? What about the 200 or so (generally pedestrians) who are killed on the railways every year?Pogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812765444160924585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40370763279492793882009-06-30T22:02:47.909+01:002009-06-30T22:02:47.909+01:00I too was cynical, but went on the course to avoid...I too was cynical, but went on the course to avoid the points.<br /><br />I was surprised and thought it was well worth it... <br /><br />There is a fair amount of clap trap, but it does remind you of the risks and consequences of speeding accidents.<br /><br />It might make you think twice before putting your foot again. It did for me.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07456462562170192857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29005239457471026222009-06-30T20:32:57.822+01:002009-06-30T20:32:57.822+01:00We ran the first of this type of course in Northan...We ran the first of this type of course in Northants nearly ten years ago. They work. We tracked 1,000 people who came on the course and 1,000 who opted out (all caught doing the same speed - 36mph in a 30 zone).<br /><br />Those who took the course turned out to reoffend 25% less.<br /><br />Education worked better than enforcement.Jon Shortlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52644740692668737902009-06-30T19:48:21.284+01:002009-06-30T19:48:21.284+01:00Iain, they're excellent.
You learn most thing...Iain, they're excellent.<br /><br />You learn most things you thought you know about driving safely, but don't.Joe Publicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19338697981656352462009-06-30T19:17:41.092+01:002009-06-30T19:17:41.092+01:00It's clear that speed doesn't kill and loa...It's clear that speed doesn't kill and loads of the other self justifying claptarp that surrounds speed cameras is simple dishonest tosh.<br /><br />*ALL* the statistics for interactions between pedestrians and vehicles show that 80% of the time the pedestrian is clearly the cause - yet we don't have a jaywalking law. <br /><br />Try jaywalking in Singapore....<br /><br />I re-learnt a word yesterday peculation - look it up - that's what speed cameras are about and precious little else.<br /><br />Having a car in our present society seems equivalent to saying look! I've got some money - come and help yourself to some...<br /><br />Speed cameras bring the law into contempt - end of story.Gordon the Fence Post Tortoisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04426735271858751220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29653496064523621022009-06-30T19:02:48.285+01:002009-06-30T19:02:48.285+01:00Forlornehope: yes, there are a lot of prats, and y...Forlornehope: yes, there are a lot of prats, and you seem to want to be chief among them.<br /><br />Cars are *fundamentally* unsafe. If two tonnes of metal rolls across your ankles or knees at even 2mph, you will be crippled. Add kinetic energy, and a tank of volatile fuel, and it's lethal.<br /><br />Yet, like most nanny state apologists, you seem to think that all motoring injuries can be prevented with just a bit of care. They cannot.<br /><br />Unless cars are totally banned, they will kill people. By accident. There used to be lots of preventable deaths, back before seatbelts and airbags and crumple zones - back when people fitted cross-plys and radials on the same axle, and the glass wasn't laminated, and they'd drive home after a few pints. But now those things have been fixed, and the roads are about as safe as it's possible to get.The King of Wrongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17944192047915019222009-06-30T18:49:50.362+01:002009-06-30T18:49:50.362+01:00Cynic
Your point about energy dissipation is enti...Cynic<br /><br />Your point about energy dissipation is entirely correct. However the current speed limits were set in the 1960s, when drum brakes were used as a rule. How much more quickly can my car dissipate energy with all-round disc brakes, the front ones larger, etched and ventilated, attached to a chassis and suspension of much higher quality? With four-channel ABS I retain far more control of the car, so I can use maximum braking in all cases.Doubting Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16507892426345836143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83567854468018213472009-06-30T18:40:56.500+01:002009-06-30T18:40:56.500+01:00Forlornehope
Your argument does not string togeth...Forlornehope<br /><br />Your argument does not string together. You are, in effect, saying that because people are killed on the roads then people should drive at the speed limit.<br /><br />You have not considered whether the speed limit was justified. You have not considered the time of day. You have not considered how many deaths have excessive speed as a causal factor. You have not considered how much of a factor, nor the other factors. You have not considered whether an excessive speed in each case was below the speed limit, at the speed limit or a little above or considerably higher than the speed limit. I could go on, but I think the point is made. There is such a large gap between your premise and conclusion that your post is utter nonsense.<br /><br />It is, indeed, you that look a prat.Doubting Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16507892426345836143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15426249946602314762009-06-30T18:34:25.313+01:002009-06-30T18:34:25.313+01:00What you want, Iain, is PePipoo. Sod the speed cam...What you want, Iain, is <a href="http://www.pepipoo.com/" rel="nofollow">PePipoo</a>. Sod the speed cameras. They are based on a lie and a government that wishes utter control of everyone. We have a duty to resist at every opportunity.Doubting Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16507892426345836143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73661572890399882202009-06-30T18:20:27.263+01:002009-06-30T18:20:27.263+01:00Its thirty for a reason they say- possibly, but wh...Its thirty for a reason they say- possibly, but what reason? The research relating collision speed to death/injury rate was published in 1969, 34 years after the thirty mile an hour speed limit was introduced, so its nothing to do with that.<br />More likely is the fact that only a few of the cars on the road in 1935 could exceed 30mph by much, so the limit would only affect a minority. We are similarly in doubt about the reasoning behind Barbara Castle's 70 mph limit- but we know it was introduced to stop Aston Martin and AC using motorways as test tracks, and also that most cars in the late sixties struggled to reach 80mph- so I guess its the same principal.<br />As to the application of speed limits to particular roads thats as often as not its the result of pressure from local activists unsupported either by the mass of motorists, the mass of local residents or any particular expertise.<br />WRT an above post- it is very unlikely that you would have hit the hypothetical drunk at your free travelling speed (even if you failed to see him staggering on the pavement and slow down appropriately)- far more likely you would have lost a lot of speed braking. Very few collisions involve vehicles continuing at their free traveling speed.<br />As for the course- not been on one, but Ive heard mixed reports, I guess it depends on the particular course you're on.Patnoreply@blogger.com