tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2415671490364135500..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Ian Tomlinson's Family Deserves the TruthIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger118125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68233502549132174082009-04-10T11:43:00.000+01:002009-04-10T11:43:00.000+01:00Just a small thing. You said that Ian Tomlinson wa...Just a small thing. You said that Ian Tomlinson was working on his Newspaper Stand. It said in the Daily Telegraph, that he did not have a newspaper stand, but was friendly with a person who did, and used to turn up to chat with him. <BR/><BR/>I do wish people would get their facts right!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10462638475011561357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49878283028301784902009-04-09T21:08:00.000+01:002009-04-09T21:08:00.000+01:00J........ The Police would love to be able to stan...J........<BR/><BR/> The Police would love to be able to stand back and watch a peaceful demonstration that does not begin with, as some say ‘just window smashing’ and then onto the attacking of the Police that ended up with many being injured.<BR/>It fine and dandy for people like yourself, with the attitude and conscious of a snail to happily come out and look about to engage in discussion when only the Police get pushed, bottled, hit with scaffold poles and other minor violence!<BR/>Like it or not, it was a push, nothing more or less, the heart attack issue is something totally different and tragic but as already can be seen and understood the Policeman who came forward as the Policeman who did push the man stands very little chance of any fair hearing when people such as yourself who have already prejudged the issue. You might as well get out the rope and lynch the Policeman now.<BR/>Oh and the war commandos you speak of, I agree, there were many in the ranks of the G20 protestors who planned and were only intent on attacking the Police and rioting. <BR/> <BR/>I would love the left wing media to spotlight the rioters and bring some justice and reason to us, but many it seems support the anti Police street war commando you talk of.moorlandhunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12917369756919621880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83534611499617472672009-04-09T14:09:00.000+01:002009-04-09T14:09:00.000+01:00moorlandhuntr,You clearly suffer under a justifica...moorlandhuntr,<BR/><BR/>You clearly suffer under a justification delusion. Your ability to rationalize the capacity and scope of law enforcement is retarded.<BR/><BR/>A full force attack with a blunt instrument by a powerful man on an older male is labeled a 'push' by you.<BR/><BR/>You, sir, have no conscience. And your opinion is of far less value than the media you ignorantly condemn. Without the media normal citizens would be fodder under police boots and I laud them for their work.<BR/><BR/>I want the media to continue to showcase these rank abuses of power so law enforcement gets the message they actually work FOR society not against it.<BR/><BR/>Too many war commandos are walking the streets.<BR/><BR/>-Agile CyborgAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109859986174655712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61289360269863203762009-04-09T09:15:00.000+01:002009-04-09T09:15:00.000+01:00I find it risible that those who wish, and welcome...I find it risible that those who wish, and welcome the Police to come down hard on the lawlessness of our towns during the weekend nights of near anarchy when drunken thugs take over they praise them for their efforts, but cannot see that a violent demo where the Police were attacked are now saying the Police are out of control? As long as the Police tackle drunken loud mouthed yobs at the weekend so as not to disturb the media bloggers sleep, then that’s alright, but God forbid them doing their job when it intrudes into their daily existence when they can take the moral high ground of priggish indignation?<BR/>The fact was that a man was pushed, something that you see one any Cop TV show, seems to pass over these people and there are no cries of ‘ Nazis in jackboots’ here, except from the drunken youth and girls who usually end up in A&E where they abuse and become violent to NHS staff.<BR/>All we do know on this short piece of video, is that a man was pushed to the ground. He got up; walked away and some minutes, 7 to 25 minutes later he died of a heart attack, which proves nothing except that he died of a heart attack. Anyone who knows, a heart attack can occur in a few seconds or over a few minutes, but generally unless it is a genetic event like SDS (sudden death syndrome) the man probably had a heart condition. If he did then we should ask all people who go on demos that may or may not turn violent to bring along a health card indicating that they do not suffer from a long list of ailments so the Police can leave them alone if they become violent, attack them, smash windows, or obstruct or hinder a lawful order to move.<BR/>The officer who came forward who said he was the one who pushed this man will no doubt, thanks to the left wingers and those double standard desk media jockeys, find him self in court on ‘whatever fits’ charges brought in by the politically controlled CPS to placate the bawling mobs that have already tried, convicted and sentenced him to years in prison.<BR/>Those newspapers who have prejudged this issue will have pre judged the case as have some of the better known political bloggers who appear on TV where their sanctimonious claptrap have made the Policing of our out of control country, made more lax for the anarchists, professional trouble makers and any Tom, Dick or Harry who organises a violent disorder, knowing the Police will sit on their hands in case they come under the gaze of the political and media hypocrites.<BR/>If we allow the tabloid, broadsheet and media blog prigs to take over justice then we are one more step on the moral decline and we become less safe.moorlandhunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12917369756919621880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13762635824033631662009-04-09T08:20:00.000+01:002009-04-09T08:20:00.000+01:00Richard P. commenting at http://www.amnation.com/v...Richard P. commenting at http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/012938.html writes:<BR/><BR/><I>... It was 19 years ago this month that I graduated as a police academy cadet. ... What I was taught in the academy back then was so remarkably different from what I see in police policies and procedures now that I am flabbergasted. They really seem to have created a world unto themselves.<BR/><BR/>... The reason that police aren't immediately engaging these evil people is because for much of the last two decades police departments have been operating under a new doctrine--force protection. Police departments once operated under the assumption that their first priority was protection of the public. That is no more. If you read interviews with police chiefs and management related to budgets or following any big incidents with mass shootings or unneccessary force you will hear mention their first priority as protecting the safety of their officers. This is part and parcel with the militarization trend we've seen in police forces nationwide.<BR/><BR/> Back in the 1970s and 1980s most search warrants were handled this way: unifomed deputies, usually with plain clothes detectives, show up at the residence. They knock and announce themselves and are let in or, with no response after some time will force open the door. It was handled pretty peacefully. No-knock forced entries began in the 1980s and were justified because drug dealers might destroy evidence by flushing it. This falls off the logic train for a few reasons, namely that any dealer with so little product that he can flush the whole thing isn't likely to be worth a search warrant and has just seriously harmed his business in the process, but no matter.<BR/><BR/> We've seen a progression where now most search and arrest warrants are served by armor-wearing machine gun wielding tactical teams. They say this is to protect the police in these matters. It certainly isn't to protect the occupants of any home they search. In the last few years this SWAT mentality has gone down to the local officer level. Street patrol officers in my little Texas suburb now wear heavy body armor and tactical rigs and approach cars in traffic stops with a large flashlight in one hand and the other on their gun at all times. They wait for backup to arrive before approaching the vehicle on traffice stops of cars with several occupants. This in an upper middle-class suburb.<BR/><BR/> There seems to be no realization that this creates an us-vs-them mentality, or that placing force protection as the first priority allows killers to continue killing as in your stories. Each new headline of some violent act reinforces this attitude amongst the police. It has reached a point where some police forces are purchasing heavy armored vehicles with .50 caliber mounted machine guns. Police are no longer a part of the community in the way they once were.</I>Bert Rustlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11603898539529306184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37115494907227768492009-04-08T22:28:00.000+01:002009-04-08T22:28:00.000+01:00I ask any police officer - are you with us or agai...<I>I ask any police officer - are you with us or against us? I don't mean the stinkies and the anarchists, I mean ordinary people who keep this country going by working hard and trying to do it the honest way.</I><BR/><BR/>I know a number of coppers and they are against us, and for the early retirement and pensions, and of course any Government who give them an easy ride and free rein to wield their power.<BR/><BR/>And I am no lefty.Houdinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02299827686189026014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11838592413784098622009-04-08T20:32:00.001+01:002009-04-08T20:32:00.001+01:00Prejudge it.A rational mind can see this man has b...Prejudge it.<BR/><BR/>A rational mind can see this man has been assaulted.<BR/><BR/>What interests me is the lengths the average citizen will undertake to justify muggings committed in the name of law enforcement.<BR/><BR/>This lone male is older and represents ZERO threat in light of the brigade surrounding him.<BR/><BR/>Just because he did not dance to the tune of the cops does NOT mean this man deserves to be assaulted.<BR/><BR/>This officer was enraged and reacted in severe disproportion to the action required; which would have been to simply escort the man to the location required.<BR/><BR/>Your IQ is seriously challenged and your desire for a free society even more so if you don't think this man's heart was not affected by this attack.<BR/><BR/>Something is wrong in the UK. What thugs are running your system of law enforcement?<BR/><BR/>-Agile CyborgAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109859986174655712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88361597787284817632009-04-08T20:32:00.000+01:002009-04-08T20:32:00.000+01:00It's hard to argue the police were being battered ...It's hard to argue the police were being battered and bullied when you see footage like this...<BR/><BR/>http://london.indymedia.org.uk/videos/993<BR/><BR/>The footage of Tomlinson being pushed is clear. Unfortunately, it's not rare. That's how they act on the line. Bolshy, over confident, bold - because that's how they need to be to control a situation. <BR/>It is only problematic when a tragedy occurs. <BR/>There were man incidents like this on the day... the difference is they were not reported because no-one died and no-one recorded it. <BR/><BR/>It should also be remembered, that if you or I pushed someone over, even if we thought we were justified, and they died minutes later. We would be arrested, cautioned and - depending on the evidence gathered, statements made and consideration of risk - either bailed pending further inquiries or charged and given a court date.<BR/><BR/>Suspended from our jobs, on full pay?<BR/><BR/>Doesn't seem right, does it?Carl Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03930750600999601721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39961572843117547222009-04-08T19:40:00.000+01:002009-04-08T19:40:00.000+01:00They won't get the truth. The police have shown th...They won't get the truth. The police have shown they're more than happy to lie about these matters, and no doubt they'll do it again.<BR/><BR/>Timothy Hoon Ireland said (or rather didn't) <I>"This post has been removed by a blog administrator."</I><BR/><BR/>Thank Christ for that. If there was ever a person who deserved to be kicked off the internet, (and then lampooned in a Downfall movie about it afterwards) it is Timothy.The Grim Reaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543130733645367498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46285601434857174272009-04-08T19:24:00.000+01:002009-04-08T19:24:00.000+01:00I wonder if those that are prejudging and have alr...I wonder if those that are prejudging and have already found the officer guilty were the same ones who saw the footage of PC Anthony Mulhall arresting the 'innocent' Toni Comer in Sheffield and thought 'police brutality'. If you remember PC Mulhall was completely innocent of any wrongdoing...but this didnt stop the media/left proclaiming him guilty. To the naked eye, maybe the footage of PC Mulhall and Comer looked like brutality. It turned out of course that Comer was drunk (not having an epileptic fit as first reported), she was thrown out of a night club for her behaviour, and had caused £3000 worth of damage to a car. The media/left soon dropped the story after convicting PC Mulhall. Sadly, PC Mulhall lost his life a few months later. Killed by the media? Who knows? But not one word of apology from the media/left before he died.<BR/><BR/>My point is....dont prejudge as the media always do.thespecialonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06514789597629728269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9057509392995335922009-04-08T18:35:00.000+01:002009-04-08T18:35:00.000+01:00It's always sad when someone dies at a relatively ...It's always sad when someone dies at a relatively young age, as Mr Tomlinson did, whatever the cause.<BR/>I agree with those who say we should wait until we know the full facts.<BR/>As you say, Iain, Mr Tomlinson's family deserves the truth, as does the police force.<BR/><BR/>For those who cynically claim this is all that can be expected from the police, I would point to the statement from Northumbria police fully accepting responsibility for the death of a young girl killed by one of their officers pursuing a putative criminal at horrendously high speed.Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07401451754373118599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61303079972902284602009-04-08T18:25:00.000+01:002009-04-08T18:25:00.000+01:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lR3ffBsMTcHas alwa...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lR3ffBsMTc<BR/><BR/>Has always influenced my view of the Met.Paul Halsallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602075031268155220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5963411731619892052009-04-08T18:12:00.000+01:002009-04-08T18:12:00.000+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Simon Gardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17189501697856123305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84973021318159157322009-04-08T17:55:00.000+01:002009-04-08T17:55:00.000+01:00"Andy said... You don't get from Monument to Liver..."Andy said... <BR/>You don't get from Monument to Liverpool Street Bail Hostel via Cornhill, that's for sure."<BR/><BR/>You do when Broadgat is blocked by G20 protesters and their tents. The police were driving Tomlinson south down Royal Exchange Passage when he was trying to go north to get home.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775753218753337766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12034651172032685512009-04-08T15:25:00.000+01:002009-04-08T15:25:00.000+01:00Another couple of points.Also in the Guardian is a...Another couple of points.<BR/><BR/>Also in the Guardian is a story - published before the G20 - that the CCTV cameras in certain areas were turned off at midnight the night before the protests.<BR/><BR/>And in response to Vienna Woods, the police were, by their own admission, coralling and holding people into the BoE and BoS areas (BoS strangely not boarded up!) to prevent a bigger gathering at the Stop the War rally in Trafalgar square (where, strangely, those CCTV cameras were also turned off).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57277159312738513642009-04-08T14:45:00.000+01:002009-04-08T14:45:00.000+01:00I have to say that a lot of opinion being put forw...I have to say that a lot of opinion being put forward is ill-considered. Reading many of the sensationalist press reports they do not reflect what I have seen of the G20 „Riots“ on TV newscasts. It beggars belief that anyone could describe these demonstrators as „peaceful“. What stunned me (and certainly stunned the injured policeman concerned) was the scene of a rioter wielding a 1½ meter long heavy pole down on the heads of policemen. After making a strike he was able to run back into an opening in the crowd, protected by the very violent section that were organising the assault.<BR/><BR/>Second point is that I can’t understand how the man that suffered the heart attack came to stroll through the middle of a violent demonstration between the lines drawn between the police and the braying mob.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, I am stunned that so many people believe that the police should somehow wave a magic wand for these demonstrators to disperse. I certainly believe in the right to demonstrate peacefully, but demonstrators do not have the right to disrupt, cause criminal damage and use mob rule to achieve their aims – that is anarchy! I certainly would not have liked to be a policeman in the middle of that lot and before anyone suggests that is what they are paid for, then think again! Nobody is paid enough to be knocked about by a gang of thugs posing as „peaceful“demonstrators and I would ask anybody here what they would have done facing a barrage of missiles thrown by idiots spoiling for a fight.<BR/><BR/>And by the way, whoever it was that said no missiles were thrown at police trying to resuscitate the dying man, then look again at TV news cover of that moment and you will see at least two bottles hit the wall behind where the man lay.Vienna Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957194230173008975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5333025838186629882009-04-08T13:58:00.000+01:002009-04-08T13:58:00.000+01:00...and one shouldn't judge a whole police force by...<I>...and one shouldn't judge a whole police force by the actions of one officer.</I><BR/>The officer whipping Mr Tomlinson with a dog leash at the start of the clip was from the City of London Police force (red checkered banding on his cap). The officer who shoved Mr Tomlinson was from the Metropolitian Police Force (MP on his helmet).<BR/><BR/>Chris Gilmour, author of ground-breaking attack blog IllandAncient, said "So, that's two police forces we may judge by the actions of their officers."<BR/><BR/>Still trying to figure out the antecedance of the Field Intelligence officer who kicks Mr Tomlinson once he's on the floor.Chris Gilmourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527672702704849717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78004698773519730572009-04-08T13:44:00.000+01:002009-04-08T13:44:00.000+01:00The most worrying aspect of this remains the diver...The most worrying aspect of this remains the divergence between the initial statements from the police and what we now know to be reality. In an echo of the spin that surrounded the shooting at Stockwell, we were told that Ian Tomlinson had no contact with the police. The was wrong and misleading to the point of being a deception. As has been observed, central London has no shortage of surveillance, so establishing the circumstances of the incident should have been straightforward. There is no excuse. What would have happened without the chance of a mobile phone video? Would the cover-up have succeeded? If Ian Tomlinson was illegally assaulted then someone should pay, but if the the police lied someone should pay for that as well.Steve Horganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13689714700049747836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42263542306682189882009-04-08T13:36:00.000+01:002009-04-08T13:36:00.000+01:00Bottom line is this is poor policing, our nation's...Bottom line is this is poor policing, our nation's capital deserves better, have they learned nothing since the de Menezes affair?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25850756907043580962009-04-08T13:29:00.000+01:002009-04-08T13:29:00.000+01:00This is not something that's now to expected from ...This is not something that's now to expected from our police. This is something that many at various levels in society have always expected, and received, from the police. Assaults of all shapes and sizes. Above, I suggested asking miners. Ask Irish people who, for whatever, reason, found themselves of interest to the police in the past, sometimes the very distant past. A police inspector once said to me, and I quote, 'If you get an Irishman in custody he likes it if you knock him about a bit. It shows his mates he's not an informer'. Was he winding me up? You tell me. I'm not Irish.<BR/><BR/>It is something that only comes to national attention when there is a tragedy, as in Mt Tomlinson's case. Then some of those whose lives have, thankfully, never been touched by such experiences are suddenly shaken and look for what is going wrong with our society now, today, as though this is all new.Jim Baxterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10817293012642419524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16075393042604388482009-04-08T13:27:00.000+01:002009-04-08T13:27:00.000+01:00Maybe he was a member of the Countryside Alliance ...Maybe he was a member of the Countryside Alliance ?Yak40https://www.blogger.com/profile/10391635243252561168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87393857897953346362009-04-08T12:53:00.000+01:002009-04-08T12:53:00.000+01:00Another name added to the list of those who have d...Another name added to the list of those who have died at the hands of the police.<BR/><BR/>Im no left winger, but clearly what happened here is well out of order, and sadly something that is now to be expected from our police.<BR/><BR/>How can the IPCC investigate this properly using the police as investigators. Time to call some European police force to conduct the investigation.bobthedoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00588199113185911764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89535784643412812292009-04-08T12:31:00.001+01:002009-04-08T12:31:00.001+01:00Bert RustleDominic Grieve wrote:We have a Civil Co...Bert Rustle<BR/><BR/>Dominic Grieve wrote:<BR/><BR/>We have a Civil Contingency Act to give the government the power to suspend virtually every statute in an emergency so that it could rule by decree. And the Government has acquired the power to repeal most legislation by decree in the Legal and Regulatory Reform Act.<BR/><BR/>Many have likened it to Hitler's Enabling Act, which was effectively an instrument that allowed the Nazis to do whatever they wanted.<BR/><BR/>"The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures...The number of cases in which an internal necessity exists for having recourse to such a law is in itself a limited one", said Adolf.<BR/><BR/>Jack Straw said recently in connection with the CC Act:<BR/><BR/>"And there is of course an ultimate check on executive power - democracy. Talk of Britain sliding into a police state is daft scaremongering, but even were it true there is a mechanism to prevent it - democratic elections."<BR/><BR/>The Act allows "Democratic Elections" to be suspended, along with Habeas Corpus, The 1689 Billl of Rights, and crucially, the Parliament Act, which requires an election to be held.<BR/><BR/>All of this can be swept away by the verbal order of a Minister of State.Wrinkled Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291551539649118631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16852124638242323722009-04-08T12:31:00.000+01:002009-04-08T12:31:00.000+01:00A Police Officer who was at the G20 has a blog ent...A Police Officer who was at the G20 has a blog entry http://sheepdogsandwolves.blogspot.com/2009/04/g20.html <BR/><BR/>Some of the comments are illuminating too.Bert Rustlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11603898539529306184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11608951780642081492009-04-08T12:21:00.000+01:002009-04-08T12:21:00.000+01:00"Bottom line is you cannot (at least with any cred...<I>"Bottom line is you cannot (at least with any credibility) defend a police officer shoving a man wandering along with his hands in his pockets to the floor, from behind. UNless you think (and I fear you might) that this is the sort of thing policemen ought to be allowed to do?"</I><BR/><BR/>I haven't defended it. I've said - on other blogs - that if that officer is found to have used unnecessary force, they should be treated accordingly. <BR/><BR/>But that's not to endorse the wilder claims of 'brutal, murderous police' that are doing the rounds of the more exciteable areas of the blogosphere, and the linking to the De Menezes case. <BR/><BR/>Rodney King would be a more appropriate comparator.JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.com