tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2237006726681720942..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: We Are Being Ruled By the De-ElectedIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86219890139328394742010-05-09T13:30:08.122+01:002010-05-09T13:30:08.122+01:00If you live by tradition and the old system...
Bu...If you live by tradition and the old system...<br /><br />But seriously, change to the electoral system could actually benefit the Tories; just one seat in Scotland (out of 59, 1.7% of the vote) in return for 16.7% of the vote does seem a tad unfair.Shamik Dashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10935999254568311462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89455120117232921102010-05-09T11:39:26.886+01:002010-05-09T11:39:26.886+01:00Iain is right is raising this interesting situatio...Iain is right is raising this interesting situation but there are far more worrying matters for the state of British democracy.<br />Gordon Brown has brought global shame on Britain by how his government has conducted this election.<br />You only have to look at the many stories on Google and where the voter fraud stories have been reported.<br />The election does not seem 'free and fair', the country of the Mother of Parliaments has a prime minister who has delivered the Mother of Election Frauds.<br />I read about the registration of 50 people in London flats, of inquiries or complaints into postal ballot fraud in at least 50 seats and then we have the people who were turned away at the polling stations.<br />I read of armed forces being denied their vote, and British citizens living in New Zealand (from where I write this) did not get to vote either.<br />Then we have those Commonwealth observers, and when Kenyans warn about Britiains electoral system being so corruptible, it must surely be embarassing for a British government to be lectured like this.<br />Regardless of what deal Nick Clegg strikes with whoever, if the Lib-Dems truly beleive in a fairer voting system, the abuses we have seen in this election must surely stop.<br />But it all just sums up the incompetence and corruption of the ZanuLiarbore years.<br />I have said as much over at Fairfactsmedia.com.FAIRFACTS MEDIAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09278035907912171422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53726022977567030192010-05-09T10:10:08.719+01:002010-05-09T10:10:08.719+01:00Sunder Katwala said: "It has tended to be the...Sunder Katwala said: <i>"It has tended to be the conservative position to defend the current constitutional arrangements and their heavy reliance on informal understandings, and to most strongly oppose ideas for greater accountability, such as putting the Royal Prerogative on a statutory basis, etc."</i><br /><br />The reason for that Mr Katwala is that up until this point we had people in govt. who had a shred of self respect. PMs who, whilst they wanted power, where decent men and women working for the good of the country.<br /><br />What we currently have is a bunch of power crazed, bottom feeding, pond dwellers who should be barred from ever holding public office again.<br /><br />And yes - you are right. We DO need a mandatory expulsion in our constitution in case (God forbid) the Labour Party ever return to power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13704207338136309142010-05-09T07:57:03.670+01:002010-05-09T07:57:03.670+01:00One might argue that the business of government ha...One might argue that the business of government has to carry on regardless until the new structure has been worked out...<br /><br />Trouble is, it's not just that I don't want to give these plonkers a moment longer to carry on ruining Britain in the same way they have for the past 13 years, I'm even more concerned they'll now into active sabotaging to make it as difficult as possible for the next administration.<br /><br />You won't find more traditional Labour value than spite.<br /><br />(Frankly, Iain, I wonder why on earth you wanted to get into the place: a few months of taking the blame for the painful measures necessary to fix the systemic ghastliness caused by Labour, followed by yet another GE and possible electoral defeat. <br /><br />Meanwhile Brown, Prescott and all the other execrable types responsible for the mess are guaranteed a place in the Lords. It's a bloody mug's game.)Dave Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02330412326038302877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55457552192091523762010-05-09T07:45:16.088+01:002010-05-09T07:45:16.088+01:00Ian, they have been Ministers formally without bei...Ian, they have been Ministers formally without being MP's since Parliament was dissolved back in early April, they have also been working under strict constraints of not making any Policy decisions or Press releases which could not be justified as urgent. <br /><br />That position continues until there is a new Government, I would assume Clegg and Cameron will have an agreement before the end of the week, Cameron will be in Number 10 during the following week, and the new Con and Lib Ministers will be in post and unaccountable for a few days before Parliament reconvenes. <br /><br />For those talking about shredders running overtime, the idea that Labour did not think they were likely to lose is a joke, anything that can be will have long since gone, anything non-political the Civil Service will not let them.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05270416768188186705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52151122712735760102010-05-09T07:19:54.494+01:002010-05-09T07:19:54.494+01:00And while all this is going on.....
The French and...And while all this is going on.....<br />The French and Germans have stitched together a deal that under a spurious clause in the Lisbon treaty Britain will have to lend money to Greece to help prop up the Euro.<br /><br />That can't be right or in British interests.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15939725043927118002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31096751759909880952010-05-09T01:52:22.569+01:002010-05-09T01:52:22.569+01:00Sorry, Iain, in my excitement in the second postin...Sorry, Iain, in my excitement in the second posting I made one factual error - John Smith besides, there was one qualified Scottish Labour MP, newly elected for Edinburgh Central, for the Scottish Office post of Solicitor-General. The young advocate was... Alasdair Darling. Even then, it seems, he was tipped for higher things.<br /><br />Mrs Thatcher's decision nevertheless to ennoble Peter Fraser and keep him as Solicitor-General in the meantime was, in the context of an election where the Tories had taken but a quarter of the Scottish vote and lost over half their Scottish seats - putting devolution back, screaming, on the Scottish political agenda - was extraordinarily provocative and foolish, an early sign that her political judgement was starting to falter. <br /><br />The Hamish Gray decision four years earlier had more emotional sense: he had lost his Ross and Cromarty seat to the boy Kennedy as a result of her government's right but implacable no-help-for-lane-ducks policy, with the closure of the British Aluminium smelter plant at Invergordon in 1981 and the loss of hundreds and hundreds of Easter Ross jobs. She felt she owed Hamish Gray, and that personal kindness is a feature of a great Prime Minister too often forgotten.John MacLeodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00881108230589246186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15024980442100397342010-05-09T00:30:36.453+01:002010-05-09T00:30:36.453+01:00"Cameron would become Prime Minister and then..."Cameron would become Prime Minister and then if the talks with the LibDems broke down then presumably someone else would have to takeover "<br /><br />Cameron can head a minority government. There's no requirement to form a coalition to obtain an effective majority. (Cameron said as much in his initial speech.) In fact, he ought to be doing that now. Brown, however, had hopes that he could strike a deal with Clegg. (It helps if you talk nicely, Gordon: just a hint, but never mind. Sorry! Sorry!)forsythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00068719978877211213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50779339536437167172010-05-09T00:12:55.336+01:002010-05-09T00:12:55.336+01:00I'm sorry Iain but you haven't thought thi...I'm sorry Iain but you haven't thought this one through.<br /><br />Let us imagine that Alistair Darling had lost his seat on Thursday, as many thought he would. And let us suppose that the crisis spreading from Greece required urgent action from the Treasury on Monday. Who would take that decision in your scenario? It couldn't be George Osborne or Vince Cable. Should it be Gordon Brown? What if he had lost his seat as well? Or should GB appoint a new Chancellor? Can you imagine the outcry if he did? You would certainly be up in arms!<br /><br />In the current situation the job of ministers is to deal with routine business, handle emergencies and avoid making any policy decisions. These de-elected ministers are seriously constrained in what they can do so that their lack of accountability doesn't become an issue. But the job of government has to carry on and therefore the existing ministers remain in post until new ministers are appointed.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14161700119144014533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34653165679415327222010-05-09T00:08:07.207+01:002010-05-09T00:08:07.207+01:00Well, it was reported on the news earlier this eve...Well, it was reported on the news earlier this evening.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62959210327081702512010-05-08T23:56:50.482+01:002010-05-08T23:56:50.482+01:00Have you checked the accuracy of this Iain? I must...Have you checked the accuracy of this Iain? I must admit, I had also assumed this would happen, but a colleague has informed me that only parliamentarians - from either Commons or Lords - can hold office, meaning that defeated ministers lost their portfolios at the same time as their seats.Tom Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07558668466362429378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90284038919460492752010-05-08T23:55:37.476+01:002010-05-08T23:55:37.476+01:00Simple answer. Tanks in Parliament Square!Simple answer. Tanks in Parliament Square!MikeyPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02628881766409720006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83766360100349946872010-05-08T23:51:25.017+01:002010-05-08T23:51:25.017+01:00@toryboys - it is sometimes true that the people i...@toryboys - it is sometimes true that the people in Whitehall know best, but I can't see how your argument can be sustained for those who are NOT EVEN MPs any more! Surely not.DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82386745473406300302010-05-08T22:57:23.215+01:002010-05-08T22:57:23.215+01:00Can I take it that my invitation to join the Gover...Can I take it that my invitation to join the Government has already been withdrawn and the Tories are breaking manifesto promises even before they come to power?tory boys never grow uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11172736984147732661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76729981213149726702010-05-08T22:47:11.696+01:002010-05-08T22:47:11.696+01:00Constitutionally..... Her Majesty and the European...Constitutionally..... Her Majesty and the European Union Commission is now your government.<br /><br />Via the provisions of article 3 of the European Communities Act 1972<br /><br />Parliament signed off the Lisbon Treaty<br /><br />'Comitology' rules OKAnoneumousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09825132566496729272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48746659670217444242010-05-08T22:43:59.194+01:002010-05-08T22:43:59.194+01:00Iain
You know very well that Ministers operate un...Iain<br /><br />You know very well that Ministers operate under very restricted powers once an election is called and I would be amazed if that has changed or whether the civil servants would allow ministers to take any party political decisions.<br /><br />And what do you think would be the situation if your logic was actually followed - Cameron would become Prime Minister and then if the talks with the LibDems broke down then presumably someone else would have to takeover - and possibly someone else if they failed to cobble together a deal. Do you realise how much such musical chairs would damage the country or do you care? But even if we were to look at it a purely partisan level, I think you would find that if Cameron were Prime Minister and depended on negotiating a deal for his survival in that position the LibDems might just have a little more negotiating leverage than they do at present.<br /><br />You just haven't thought this through - fortunately the civil servants and the constitutional experts have.tory boys never grow uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11172736984147732661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43881190424486443272010-05-08T22:22:13.560+01:002010-05-08T22:22:13.560+01:00They were retained in employment for some months u...They were retained in employment for some months until ennobling, Iain - which cannot be done hastily - and in that time they were Ministers unaccountable to either house. In any event, at the centre of your curious argument is that the men you name were rejected by their own constituency electorate, as was true of Gray and Fraser. (I should stress that they were both decent, able men, and Labour criticism of the Fraser move was especially muted as they knew a future Labour government might also have to furnish a Solicitor-General - who must be an advocate at the Scottish bar - outwith the Commons; the only qualified Labour MP at the time was John Smith, then high in the Shadow Cabinet.)<br /><br />I'm not being nasty here but your point does seem unduly partisan and unfair, as many have observed on other grounds.John MacLeodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00881108230589246186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90835070585557525362010-05-08T22:10:11.172+01:002010-05-08T22:10:11.172+01:00@ Huw
"they are constitutionally obliged to ...@ Huw<br /><br />"they are constitutionally obliged to carry on"<br /><br />Garbage. Name the Statute. Where's this 'constitution'?<br /><br />What do you suppose might happen if each of them, recognising the moral dilemma, chose to resign? Would the world stop turning?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80677304738641100552010-05-08T22:04:20.842+01:002010-05-08T22:04:20.842+01:00We Are Being Ruled By the De-Elected
No !
We Ar...We Are Being Ruled By the De-Elected <br /><br />No !<br /><br />We Are Being Ruled By the Un-<b>Dead<br /><br /></b>Alan DouglasAlan Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16071898364060640779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26069549365715921862010-05-08T21:50:20.040+01:002010-05-08T21:50:20.040+01:00When I were a lad, my mum always said that we need...When I were a lad, my mum always said that we needed an immediate change of Prime Minister after a General Election in case the Russians attacked us. Is Gordon's finger still on the nuke button?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63367213464804736692010-05-08T21:43:07.083+01:002010-05-08T21:43:07.083+01:00Lots of quoting of constitutional conventions goin...Lots of quoting of constitutional conventions going on but very selectively. By convention, ministers are chosen from members of parliament and peers. That convention doesn't lapse when those ministers have lost their seats.Suburbianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07424918047713864150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78912246719648545372010-05-08T21:36:34.570+01:002010-05-08T21:36:34.570+01:00"Furthermore, Gordon Brown has a duty to stay..."Furthermore, Gordon Brown has a duty to stay in 10 Downing Street until David Cameron tells him that he's ready to form a government. " ---- dim witted bollocks.<br /><br />Brown has the constitutional duty to resign if he CANNOT form a govt and recommend a successor. Its clear he cannot and he should resign thus putting an end to his responsibility. Cameron does not have to prove anything. Brown only has to realise that he cannot rule.<br /><br />Mr Brusca you miss the point - these people are neither elected nor members of the House of Lords.<br /><br />And dear john (and others of that ilk) if just calling people childish names were a requisite for cleverness then the Labour Party would be the brainiest on the planet.<br /><br />Lets not forget that whoever governs next faces a howling mad and bad legacy from Brown and Labour. Thats why, given that were we are, the only solution which gives stability is a Con and LD arrangement. Any other can only offer confusion and delay and another unwanted election.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34622604727082339562010-05-08T21:27:51.128+01:002010-05-08T21:27:51.128+01:00A Minister stays a Minister until he or she hands ...A Minister stays a Minister until he or she hands back his or her ministerial seals of office. A non-MP Minister has the same legitimacy as a life peer Minister.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358349301959327747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27300580507664930942010-05-08T21:26:21.596+01:002010-05-08T21:26:21.596+01:00I can still remember the egregious Campbell talkin...I can still remember the egregious Campbell talking about when 'he was in government'!! FFS! At least the alcoholics and liars we usually have in government are voted for.<br /><br />Meanwhile, where is the investigation into the postal voting scandals? Where is the analysis of the (9,000) PVs (for voting patterns) that Balls benefited from when he managed his 1101 majority?Snotrockethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08365372497381385121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60590441916211854042010-05-08T21:18:00.267+01:002010-05-08T21:18:00.267+01:00John, you don't have a point. They were minist...John, you don't have a point. They were ministers in parliament. The people I refer to are not.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.com