tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2148476037681239723..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: LibDem Tax Policy Could Kill EntrepreneurshipIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28171977041241484522010-05-12T00:41:54.422+01:002010-05-12T00:41:54.422+01:00Really annoyed.....trading off the full width of P...Really annoyed.....trading off the full width of Personal capital gains as a means of paying for a uniform £10k earnings lower threshold is really damaging and ill thought through.I voted Conservative- why the hell is this Liberal madness imposed upon me? Its not in the Conservative manifesto..its not policy.Why is this flagged immediately within hours of the "Deal" being made, like its cast in stone.<br /><br /><br /><br />Sean-DanielLEVERAGE SITE 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/07171620868979222632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-640129620438057592010-05-03T10:28:39.179+01:002010-05-03T10:28:39.179+01:00Watched a recent film documentary, business leader...Watched a recent film documentary, business leaders and young entrepreneurs embarks on a journey of discovery rather than a mission of invention or creation.<br /> ''The YES Movie''<a href="http://www.TheYESmovie.com" rel="nofollow">www.TheYESmovie.com</a> by Louis LautmanUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12463449671312510983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-91140595566147075752010-05-03T00:14:10.009+01:002010-05-03T00:14:10.009+01:00@Tim:
"the LDs do have an entrepreneurial off...@Tim:<br />"the LDs do have an entrepreneurial offer - if you get a job [...] you get the first 10k tax free."<br /><br />Do you - or the LDs - actually understand the words you're using? There is <i>nothing</i> entrepreneurial about getting a job, entirely the opposite, in fact.The King of Wronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439966612208152425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59613981142019416572010-05-02T23:04:49.916+01:002010-05-02T23:04:49.916+01:00So the message is clear. If you want businesses to...So the message is clear. If you want businesses to have a chance to succeed, best not vote Lib Dem.Martin Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04148241391183658112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88379419532843148642010-05-02T22:20:39.078+01:002010-05-02T22:20:39.078+01:00@DespairingLiberal
I agree - none of the parties ...@DespairingLiberal<br /><br />I agree - none of the parties are telling us the truth about how much will need to be cut to reduce the annual overspend.<br /><br />As a result, with no manifesto details to go on, we have to judge on likely character.<br /><br />The Tories undoubtedly have a good track record in cutting spending. Labour most definitely do not, being intrinsically tax-n-spend.<br /><br />In my view, Clegg probably errs on the side of smaller government, but Cable is further Left than Darling, and cannot be controlled by Clegg. On the whole, just as likely to smack taxes & spending up than down.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180187317056507347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81840071781730739332010-05-02T20:26:13.258+01:002010-05-02T20:26:13.258+01:00Paddy Briggs - And Ken Clarke as Business Secretar...Paddy Briggs - And Ken Clarke as Business Secretary could kill any hope of a moral dimension in Britain's business sector....I'd rather have Mandy!!<br /><br />And what "moral dimension" does the twice sacked Mandelbum bring? Presumably you mean being "seriously relaxed" about businessmen (esp. Peter's Friends) being filthy rich is a moral dimension?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984175735889920724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32784927182690377982010-05-02T20:23:40.484+01:002010-05-02T20:23:40.484+01:00Paddy Briggs - And Ken Clarke as Business Secretar...Paddy Briggs - And Ken Clarke as Business Secretary could kill any hope of a moral dimension in Britain's business sector... I'd rather have Mandy!!<br /><br />And what "moral dimension" does the twice disgraced Mandelbum bring to politics?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984175735889920724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63429293008237118102010-05-02T20:08:35.096+01:002010-05-02T20:08:35.096+01:00Nigel - up to a point, I agree - they are trying t...Nigel - up to a point, I agree - they are trying to attack tax evasion. To be fair though, CG has been seen as a route around paying income tax. The problem with all these methods is that they are attempting to counter the smart-moves of the very rich but generally have the side effect of hitting the small businesspeople, who in many ways are the "working class" of the business world.<br /><br />I'm not 100% in favour of this LibDem policy, but that doesn't get away from the fact that Iain and the other champion Tory bloggers are making little or no effort to explain what they think the main Tory tax increases will be. We are all supposed to accept a sort of la-la land belief that all will be well under the Tories - taxes will go down and so will the deficit. Dream on.DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9506754065720089832010-05-02T16:37:06.431+01:002010-05-02T16:37:06.431+01:00Iain - the IFS said that we had underestimated the...Iain - the IFS said that we had underestimated the revenue yield from the CGT change, not overestimated it, as your addendum suggests.Tim Leunighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08930175702683617125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70172875093411378312010-05-02T15:30:08.914+01:002010-05-02T15:30:08.914+01:00Just why should anyone that takes all the risks to...Just why should anyone that takes all the risks to set up a business, employ people and create wealth, grown the business whilst often drawing less salary than their staff - despite carrying all the risk, often at the risk of total personal financial armageddon - and then sell it to get their reward for all this effort and risk, pay any tax at all entirely escapes me.<br /><br />CGT is an evil tax that kills enterprise and investment destoys jobs and destroys wealth. As a method 'redistribution' all it does is redistribute unemployment.<br /><br />And why do we still have the concept of tax 'allowances'? Implicit in this description is that everything belongs to the State and in its wonderful benevolence is deigns to allow you to keep some of your wealth. It is about time that we reversed this so that their is no such thing as a 'tax allowance'. In future it shoud be stated what is taxed, not waht is not taxed.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83802979154597852472010-05-02T14:55:57.053+01:002010-05-02T14:55:57.053+01:00Despairing Liberal, the LibDem CGT proposal has no...Despairing Liberal, the LibDem CGT proposal has nothing to do with reducing the deficit.<br /><br />Had you actually bothered to read their manifesto, you'd know that it's part of the dodgy funding (which also includes the laughable 5 billion a year from 'reducing tax avoidance and evasion') for their tax cut, not for reducing the deficit.<br /><br />A CGT rate of 50%, especially without any form of taper relief, or indexation for inflation, would be catastrophic for investment.Nigelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18171835878570773595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-91727712756568468252010-05-02T14:38:19.117+01:002010-05-02T14:38:19.117+01:00@Chrome Diplomat: "f the cap was set as 20 00...@Chrome Diplomat: "f the cap was set as 20 000 people a year and we reached it by for instance June. Does that mean if West Ham want to by an African Striker during the transfer window they can't?<br /><br />What if we reach 19 998 and a family of four wants to come here- are the pro-family Tories going to say that only parents can come? Or one parent on"<br /><br />The answer for both is that they have to wait next year. Cleggy said about the striker which is pure drivel.<br /><br />I actually prefer a capping at a much reduced level.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10769534469999177532010-05-02T14:35:21.918+01:002010-05-02T14:35:21.918+01:00@Chrome Diplomat. Let us see what you are saying ...@Chrome Diplomat. Let us see what you are saying and ignoring your jibe which is infantile: <br />1.<br />"This doesn't need 'border checks on the M4' because the job ties people down and, if they loose that job then they have 6 months (as in the existing system) to find a new job in the same area (note they cannot claim benefits at all during this time). If they fail their VISA has ended and they must return home"<br />Why should they return home, when they can drop out of sight and become illegal immigrants expecting another round of amnesty? How would you trace and catch them and deport them? I can give you cases of those who came on a work permit which tied their job to an employer and when the work permit period ran out and employers could not employ them , they disappeared. I know a number of them when they contacted me.<br /><br />2. About the amnesty. You have not read what I posted. Typical of a libdem. I said that the number of illegal immigrants are swelling fast because of the drop outs from colleges and new universities-a conservative estimate of over 100,000 every other years as these so called students come to work. They do not bring enough funds. This happens as the foreign students start working 20 hours which they are entitled to and this means their studies are neglected, their attendance goes down , they cannot engage with their courses and they drop out. There is over 50% of drop out rates in this category. Also overstayed visitors, their numbers not as large, but significant. Hence your "On the Amnesty- it is a ONE OFF policy to deal with the balls-up the Tories and Labour made be relaxing border controls. If someone CAN PROVE they have been here 10 years (so came prior to 2000) then they will be able to earn their citizenship" makes no sense. You are as deluded as your leader Clegg. If they have nop papers,no way of proving when they arrived and after citizenship , they will bring their dependedants swelling the numbers more. Just look at the Spanish experience. Spain is ready to give a second round of amnesty for another million built up.<br />Clegg and libdems, a bunch of misfits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18214507126646758102010-05-02T14:33:32.264+01:002010-05-02T14:33:32.264+01:00For god's sake !
Loose = free, slack .
Los...For god's sake ! <br /><br />Loose = free, slack .<br /><br />Lose = to not have any more , the opposite of win .Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18246409148526378009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78729482620249976262010-05-02T13:57:18.555+01:002010-05-02T13:57:18.555+01:00It is insensible to compare the current and only r...It is insensible to compare the current and only recently changed taxation on crapital gains with what the Lib Dems propose.(Which at first glance look a lot like returning to what they were)<br /><br />As others have explained there was taper relief and under the last Conservative Government they also looked at equalising rates. It simply makes sense - if capital gains tax is lower than income tax businesses will use it reduce their tax liability. The tax differential means that income tax itself has to be higher to compensate.<br /><br />It *is* a sensible, long term view for income tax and CGT to be taxed equally. It would allow both to be at a lower rate too.<br /><br />The natural end point of such a stance is something no major party is advocating though - a flat tax - no loopholes, no stealth taxes, no phoney war of National Insurance which is income tax by another name, include in that gains on the gain on homes and you would dampen down the housing market bubble. <br /><br />It costs a lot of money for the Government to manage such a complex tax regime and it is also one of the reasons why inequality has increased under Labour - the advantages are all in the hands of higher earners who can afford accountants to plan their financial affairs efficiently. <i>If the tax regime itself was efficient</i> this advantage would evaporate and the cost to taxpayers in collecting taxes would be reduced.<br /><br />A flat tax would enable voters to easily appreciate how much of our money the State pinches so could make a good judgement on whether the Government was value for money.Garethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11182144080955551878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70574371168318455962010-05-02T13:09:00.022+01:002010-05-02T13:09:00.022+01:00CGT is wildly misunderstood. Under the Thatcher/La...CGT is wildly misunderstood. Under the Thatcher/Lawson rules only the true gain, AFTER the inflation element of the gain had been deducted, was taxed and added to your income, and even then there were allowances and investment reliefs.<br /><br />Darlings 18% flat scheme is a joke. It is 18% on the whole gain including inflation. If you hold an asset worth 100k, and ten years later it sells for 200k but there has been 100% inflation you pay 18k tax under the Darling scheme meaning that you are taxed on inflation. Darlings scheme progressively penalises long term investors and rewards short term speculators. The Thatcher Lawson Plan was very fair. It would be fair if top slicing was used. <br /><br />Notwithstanding that, given that banks won't lend to businesses because they are too risky, you really must ask yourself if this the right time to put 50% tax rates on angel and owner/operator speculative investment returns. The State currently takes 17.5% out of most business turnover, about 30% of the profits, a further 20% on dividends on those profits, tax and NI from every employee and the cherry on top, business rates. And it takes no risk whatsoever.<br /><br />The State is already too greedy when it comes to enterprise, this measure will just kill the golden goose off. There is no incentive to invest, a quick buck is the way to go now.<br /><br />Sad really.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01406197447871512634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-3968561936312371082010-05-02T13:02:54.406+01:002010-05-02T13:02:54.406+01:00DespairingLiberal, thank you for the accusation th...DespairingLiberal, thank you for the accusation that this email is somehow from CCHQ. I can assure you it isn't, because I wrote it and have no such links!<br /><br />Yes, I am talking about individual CGT, as that's the one that entrepreneurs and smaller angel investors care about. CGT policy is undoubtedly a difficult area, but posters above are right to note that these particular parties have historically always had a rate of tax lower than that for income, whether through a lower basic rate or some form of relief system. This is surely philosophically correct given the inherently risky nature of earnings derived through these activities compared to income.<br /><br />Chrome Diplomat, thanks for hi-lighting the Local Enterprise Funds. The trouble is that they're not going to have many individuals on the investment side thanks to the CGT policy! And as for regional stock exchanges, the burden of a 'public' listing on small companies is huge (trust me, I've been there) - and you've (again) got the problem that investors would have to be promised unbelievable rates of return to counteract the CGT policy. <br /><br />Yet again, this hi-lights a Lib Dem policy that is badly thought through - it's based on a fundamental misunderstanding of entrepreneurship and investment and the philosophies behind them.Tobyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600646260210849869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12713020303306004892010-05-02T13:00:55.239+01:002010-05-02T13:00:55.239+01:00@ Paddy Briggs
"I like Ken - but his work as...@ Paddy Briggs<br /><br />"I like Ken - but his work as a director of BAT shows that he supports a corporation on the distant fringes of respectability."<br /><br />Oh dear! And how about the ethics of Shell?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40223542873817624272010-05-02T12:51:03.248+01:002010-05-02T12:51:03.248+01:00@norman
I come to this blog because most of the t...@norman<br /><br />I come to this blog because most of the time Iain offers something useful to the debate- sadly this has been less and less the case as we get closer to polling day.<br /><br />Let me explain...very slowly using small words for you..the LibDem regional immigration policy.<br /><br />In order to come to the UK as an economic migrant yo currently need a) a skill that is required and b) a job to go to.<br /><br />The policy would bring in a third criteria- that the job you have to go to is in a particular area.<br /><br />On the basis that people don't usually commute 7 hours to get to work each day its fairly obvious that, if a job is in a particular area then the immigrant will also live in the area.<br /><br />This doesn't need 'border checks on the M4' because the job ties people down and, if they loose that job then they have 6 months (as in the existing system) to find a new job in the same area (note they cannot claim benefits at all during this time). If they fail their VISA has ended and they must return home.<br /><br />On the Amnesty- it is a ONE OFF policy to deal with the balls-up the Tories and Labour made be relaxing border controls. If someone CAN PROVE they have been here 10 years (so came prior to 2000) then they will be able to earn their citizenship.<br /><br />It is dealing with a current problem, not suggesting long term policy. Furthermore- as well as having PROOF they have been here for a decade they will also need to speak english, pay taxes, and do community service as punishment for coming here illegally.<br /><br />Finally on the ridiculous Tory cap plan. If the cap was set as 20 000 people a year and we reached it by for instance June. Does that mean if West Ham want to by an African Striker during the transfer window they can't?<br /><br />What if we reach 19 998 and a family of four wants to come here- are the pro-family Tories going to say that only parents can come? Or one parent one kid? <br /><br />I think Tories calling LibDem policies loony is like a pot calling a brand-new white fridge black.Chrome Diplomathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14949015024006620631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53447020759688198482010-05-02T12:49:56.922+01:002010-05-02T12:49:56.922+01:00Some people seem to think that CGT was at the same...Some people seem to think that CGT was at the same rate as Income Tax under the Tories.<br /><br />This illustrates the problem with comparing headline rates.<br /><br />I have paid a lot of CGT in my time, and have rarely paid the headline rate (until very recently)<br /><br />There has always been tapering (or indexation before that) to discount the effective CGT rate to encourage longer term investment in business, as opposed to short term speculation.<br /><br />So equalising the rates now, without reintroducing some form of tapering discount, would penalise longer term investment.<br /><br />Why would I invest my money in something over ten years (with all the additional risks) rather than a succession of ten one-year punts (much less risky), if the tax I pay would be the same in both cases (assuming similar gains).<br /><br />I wouldn't.<br /><br />And many others wouldn't either.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180187317056507347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26119509767846885002010-05-02T12:46:24.596+01:002010-05-02T12:46:24.596+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ken Tindellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11400205450390747107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-3486160055694479642010-05-02T12:42:14.768+01:002010-05-02T12:42:14.768+01:00Despairing Liberal et al.
You complete mis the po...Despairing Liberal et al.<br /><br />You complete mis the point in terms of individual CGT.<br /><br />My father has been an active angel investor for more than 30 years. Originally he did this through a limited company, but now it is almost impossible to get cash out of a company in a tax efficient manner, so most new investments are being done on a personal basis.<br /><br />It is the INVESTOR not the company that pays capital gains - and so if the after tax return goes down from 82% of the net profit to 50% of net profit that has a hige impact on the attractivenes of the investments,Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05944402323068719550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45393268222233488482010-05-02T12:29:12.569+01:002010-05-02T12:29:12.569+01:00Libdem supporters galore here! They hate Tories s...Libdem supporters galore here! They hate Tories so much I wonder why they bother to visit this blog. They support loony policies like "regional immigration" ( just how do they propose to keep these immigrants in those regions?) and amnesty for those immigrants not legally here without papers. Blears campaign case has shown that the illegal immigrants are made of mostly foreign students who dropped out of colleges and new universities and visitors who have overstayed, and Libdems do not want cap and will let in more and more of these potential illegal immigrants who come as so called legitimate students and visitors, overstay and expect more rounds of amnesties. What a bunch of weirdos these Libdems are! Come to my borough which is ruled by Libdems and see their loony policies in action as they are ready to be ousted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35505165236449129502010-05-02T12:20:59.722+01:002010-05-02T12:20:59.722+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ken Tindellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11400205450390747107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73066170568559547552010-05-02T12:12:37.380+01:002010-05-02T12:12:37.380+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ken Tindellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11400205450390747107noreply@blogger.com