tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2139737244570219574..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: How Many Kids Has This Happened To?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51096102670329693532008-08-23T09:15:00.000+01:002008-08-23T09:15:00.000+01:0010 years ago when I did my 'A'-levels this sort of...10 years ago when I did my 'A'-levels this sort of thing happened.<BR/><BR/>Lots of people at my school got much lower than expected history grades and lost their university places as a result (in at least one case this was despite excelling at the much more difficult STEP paper).<BR/><BR/>There was no breakdown of the marks in this case so they had to wait for their papers to be re-marked.<BR/><BR/>Other examples from my 'A'-levels and GCSEs were a paper which was far harder than any other in history - that received official complaints and a question to which the teacher did not know the answer - he even went to the British Museum to look at the original sources and found nothing.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure cockups lke this happened before then too, especially in marking where you have lots of tired teachers trying to earn a little extra.Tristanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15395992764678278326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55699692039957383132008-08-21T17:57:00.000+01:002008-08-21T17:57:00.000+01:00what do you expect if you privatise everything! br...what do you expect if you privatise everything! bring back the old state exam boards - gthey focussed on getting it right - not on maximising profits by minimising costs. Sometimes the State is a better provider of public services - sadly Tories and NuLab are more interested in profit than peopleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23178156792906900292008-08-21T14:41:00.000+01:002008-08-21T14:41:00.000+01:00the problem was neatly summarised by Prescott when...the problem was neatly summarised by Prescott when he said that Labour wanted 'all our children to be above average'. Everyone laughed at him for not understanding maths, but that was just shooting the messenger to an extent. It <I>is</I> labour policy and that is why it is failing. <BR/><BR/>Labour have condemned elitism as a bad thing, therefore when only 10%(or less) of people went to university, that was 'élitist'. Therefore 50% of people must go. But only 10% were intelligent enough, so the bar for admission was brought down. Now employers complain that graduates are not as clever as they used to be - of course they're not! 40% of them would never have been graduates under the old system.<BR/><BR/>It was also the ridiculous figure of 50% that meant top-up fees, student debt, etc, because it had to be paid for somehow.<BR/><BR/>Moreover that is why there is a shortage of skilled labourers - mechanics, plumbers, builders etc. All of these professions were where many of those people, who had intelligence and aptitude but were not academic, would have ended up. Now they end up in debt, with a near useless degree, and expectations of a career that they will not have. <BR/><BR/>Without élitism, you will not have an élite. The best universities know this, that is why they refuse to accept quotas and positive discrimination. To complain about it is to complain about the fact that some people are better at some things than others. Which is stupid. No-one thinks that 50% of young people should represent their country at sport (to borrow a topical analogy). Why should 50% have an university degree?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74814482027158956552008-08-21T14:05:00.000+01:002008-08-21T14:05:00.000+01:00Hey said..."BBC? Sorry but your son is FAR too stu...Hey said...<BR/><BR/>"BBC? Sorry but your son is FAR too stupid to be going to university.<BR/><BR/>Given the prevalence of A grades, no one below ABB should be allowed into ANY university. I'm shocked that some of these people remember how to breathe"<BR/><BR/>The threshold of total UCAS entry point should be set at BBB.<BR/>Looking at the 'clearing' page in the Websites of even in a number of Russell Group universities for a number of courses, and the grade requirements which is often less than 300 UCAS points (BBB), if A grades are prevalent, I wonder where have these thousands of students gone? Are these prevalent grades achieved in subjects like Business Studies, General studies and not in the hard English and sciences? <BR/><BR/>In my experience as as an university admissions tutor and an A-level examiner, the A levels are not as prevalent in the above subjects as one would like to think.<BR/><BR/>If we had to do anything about university admissions, these 'clearings' that even Russell Group universities put up should be curtailed. They indicate excess unniversity places which need rationalisation. Also the top 10 Russell Group universities recruit as much as 20% overseas students denying places for well-qualified UK students. That way they attempt to plug the funding-gap. This is ridiculous as the overseas fee is set at a level that<BR/>do not cover the cost of their education. The universities and the state fill the difference even for these overseas students.<BR/><BR/>As for the so called 'new Universities' who use 'clearing' to recruit almost all the students for their courses, this is the route many overseas students armed with an year or in some cases a term worth of funds come to UK hoping that they can finance their studies and in most cases leave university education to work. Many disappear after first year and some attend lectures sporadically. My suggestion is to stream line the number of these 'new universities',merging a number of them or even closing a few to minimise this problem. I wrote to Labour ministers concerned and they do not want to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74690967680318131372008-08-21T13:47:00.000+01:002008-08-21T13:47:00.000+01:00I would argue it is nothing new. I took my A level...I would argue it is nothing new. I took my A levels 10 years ago and (seriously) my maths marks were added up incorrectly to give me a B instead of an A.<BR/>It was corrected days later but I didn't go back to my first choice university - the lack of hesitation in telling me to get stuffed with a B was enough to convince it wasn't for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87698441580138129582008-08-21T13:25:00.000+01:002008-08-21T13:25:00.000+01:00My friend was told that to get into Warwick Univer...My friend was told that to get into Warwick University he needed AABb in his A-levels (with the 'b' an AS level).<BR/><BR/>He got AABC and was refused. However, if he hadn't carried on with the C A-level and left it at AS-level then he would have had AABb.<BR/>So what does that say about learning? Stop when you reach the finishing post and don't compete for better glory? It's ridiculous.Bennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12060185317575781641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20870108307323320442008-08-21T12:34:00.000+01:002008-08-21T12:34:00.000+01:00Hey said..."BBC? Sorry but your son is FAR too stu...<B>Hey said...</B><BR/><BR/>"BBC? Sorry but your son is FAR too stupid to be going to university.<BR/><BR/>Given the prevalence of A grades, no one below ABB should be allowed into ANY university. I'm shocked that some of these people remember how to breathe"<BR/><BR/>Very hard to argue with that, sadly. <BR/><BR/><BR/><B>Pushy Bitch of a Mother said...</B> <BR/><BR/>"kiss my white Irish ass."<BR/><BR/>Seems kinda obvious that your, sorry his, little uni already has. Probably an ethnic thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48020441425607461202008-08-21T12:02:00.000+01:002008-08-21T12:02:00.000+01:00Pushy Bitch of a Mother said... "I wasn't going to...Pushy Bitch of a Mother said... <BR/>"I wasn't going to dignify your comment with a reply but I couldn't resist tearing you a new one. Pray tell what do you do that you are so precious about A grades you gobshite?"<BR/><BR/>Ha Ha! <BR/><BR/>You fell for it.<BR/><BR/>Don't you know when you are being set up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40678660510164686382008-08-21T11:26:00.000+01:002008-08-21T11:26:00.000+01:00Unsworth @ 11.07 AM:Which neatly raises two issues...<B>Unsworth @ 11.07 AM:</B><BR/><BR/>Which neatly raises two issues:<BR/><BR/>1. The "culture-sag" that has occurred in the teaching force over my lifetime, aided and abetted by Governments that wanted education reduced to tick-the-box instruction.<BR/><BR/>2. Why, thanks to the short-sightedness of industry, and the complicity of (mainly Tory) Governments, Britain abandoned any coherent policies for trade-training.<BR/><BR/>And, yes, this is relevant to the thread. When we adopted "criteria-related" assessment, especially in "Arts" subjects, it <I>did</I> inevitably become tick-the-box and teach-to-task. Thank you, Thatcher and Baker. At least, for all of its vagaries, "norm-related" assessment meant that there was a premium for originality (among teacher and taught) and a hierarchy of perceived quality.<BR/><BR/>This, incidentally, is why many students proceeding from school, where assessment is purely on determined criteria, have problems dealing with the qualitative evaluation in Higher Education. (Says he, who received the classic "Knows little; but writes well" among the more glowing responses to his undergraduate essays.)Malcolm Redfellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11907427518823910875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29744118430384227302008-08-21T11:11:00.000+01:002008-08-21T11:11:00.000+01:00Anon 8:41Brilliant posting and brilliant idea. I ...Anon 8:41<BR/><BR/>Brilliant posting and brilliant idea. I am finally doing a degree as a very mature student and this really works for me. <BR/><BR/>I always thought coursework was a far better indicator and teachers who know their students would know if they were pilfering from the internet. If universities wanted some kind of 'independent' indicator they could do American style 'SATs' which are strictly aptitude tests.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18705606137711365722008-08-21T11:07:00.001+01:002008-08-21T11:07:00.001+01:00Norfolk Blogger"You get the impression some Tories...Norfolk Blogger<BR/><BR/>"You get the impression some Tories would simply like poor people to go down the mines and learn their place."<BR/><BR/>No. It's <I>your</I> impression, you can't speak for everyone else, I'm afraid.<BR/><BR/>Sadly there are virtually no mines left, nor any real industrial base, either. Still we've got plenty of teachers and trainers. The question is, what are all these people doing to add to the general prosperity of the nation? What is the point of all this teaching and training?<BR/><BR/>We're producing a nation of vastly overqualified counter-hands for MacDonalds, or 'customer-service' operatives. How long can we go on selling 'services' to each other before the whole economy implodes?<BR/><BR/>Remember the Polish Plumber invasion?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16780014733795941852008-08-21T11:07:00.000+01:002008-08-21T11:07:00.000+01:00Ageing TabIs this supposed to be a GOOD thing?!Ageing Tab<BR/><BR/>Is this supposed to be a GOOD thing?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-71257373297040033922008-08-21T11:00:00.000+01:002008-08-21T11:00:00.000+01:00Having had many Oxbridge graduates working or inte...<I>Having had many Oxbridge graduates working or interning for me I was astounded to see how many of them couldn't function in an office situation.</I><BR/><BR/>Totally true, oxbridge grads find it very difficult to deal with people who aren't other oxbridge grads.<BR/><BR/>For ages I thought this was a problem, then I looked at all the management consultancies and did exactly what they do - <I>only</I> hire ex-oxbridge.<BR/><BR/>works like a dream, and saved a fortune in HR. Don't even have to interview that much, as the nice admissions tutors at Oxford and Cambridge do it for us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14917681616701478922008-08-21T08:42:00.000+01:002008-08-21T08:42:00.000+01:00It happened to me 33 years ago so nothing changes....It happened to me 33 years ago so nothing changes.The board did not include the marks from the second half of the paper.Luckily I had a teacher who raised a stink and had the paper re-examinedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19240275476600416452008-08-21T08:41:00.000+01:002008-08-21T08:41:00.000+01:00"The universities of worth should reintroduce entr..."The universities of worth should reintroduce entrance examinations, and treat our pathetic, debased system of public examinations with the contempt it deserves"<BR/><BR/>To all the detractors of the 'universities of worth' one point and one example.<BR/><BR/>First the top universities in Medicine and Law have done just that. You have to sit a national test as part of their entrance process. In law the LNAT is computer based and run, I believe, through the driver testing centre network. It's rigorous.<BR/><BR/>Second, A few years back I met a youngish woman at a conference. We chatted and she revealed that she had left school with no GCSEs at all and worked for 6 years as a shop assistant but was now a mature student at a particular university doing a degree in Education. She had come into this via an access course and wanted to become a teacher.<BR/><BR/>I thought 'good on you' so I congratulated her and asked how she had now adjusted to study and exams when it had never been her thing at school. It was easy she said. Almost everything was marked on continuous assessment and coursework. There were almost no exams. Anyway, as a socialist she didnt believe in exams. They were just another form of elitism and she thought it was wrong to label and grade people at any age. Exams meant nothing and she wanted the whole concept abolished.<BR/><BR/>By now she will have graduated and I assume will be out there somewhere teaching someone's children. Good luck to them.<BR/><BR/>And before the detratctors start, yes I know this is a Conservative blog but that anecdote is absolutely utterly true. It's a single and extreme example but I was just totally shocked at the time by what I heard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21219830607079715302008-08-21T08:17:00.000+01:002008-08-21T08:17:00.000+01:00Same thing happend to my nephew 4 years ago but in...Same thing happend to my nephew 4 years ago but in a different subject. He appealed and was upgarded by two full grades. he just graduated with a top first class honours.<BR/><BR/>My wife used to make A and O level papers but stopped years ago for two reasons. <BR/><BR/>First she was appalled at the drop in standards and what she was required to do / give marks for. <BR/><BR/>Second the pay was atrocious so there was a real incentive not to do it properly and just get through as many as possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88022967792631081752008-08-21T07:49:00.000+01:002008-08-21T07:49:00.000+01:00Hey 'Hey' aka Shagadelic aka assholeI wasn't going...Hey 'Hey' aka Shagadelic aka asshole<BR/><BR/>I wasn't going to dignify your comment with a reply but I couldn't resist tearing you a new one. Pray tell what do you do that you are so precious about A grades you gobshite? If you had an ounce of nous you'd know that intelligence and passion for your subject is far more important than test results. In fact the kids at my son's school were told not to try to be creative or original in their answers - which is why we have a glut of A grades belonging to people who don't have a creative idea in their head and can't even think their way through anything that isn't a 'set piece'. <BR/><BR/>Having had many Oxbridge graduates working or interning for me I was astounded to see how many of them couldn't function in an office situation. There was the Cambridge graduate who did not know how put together a cogent brief for the boss and the Oxford graduate who when faced with a difficulty didn't know how to get past it. Then there was the Hull University intern (you only need a BCC I believe) who was utterly hopeless (Iain, you know who I mean!)BUT who has now graduated and has carved out a nice career in his own political media business. <BR/><BR/>Happily, the university that my son is attending looks for passion and committment rather than straight A grades. And before you say something demeaning - it is NOT an ex-poly but even if it was, it is no reason to turn your nose up at it. So, kiss my white Irish ass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67190828677417072152008-08-21T03:13:00.000+01:002008-08-21T03:13:00.000+01:00BBC? Sorry but your son is FAR too stupid to be go...BBC? Sorry but your son is FAR too stupid to be going to university.<BR/><BR/>Given the prevalence of A grades, no one below ABB should be allowed into ANY university. I'm shocked that some of these people remember how to breathe, and yet they think that they should be able to get a degree.<BR/><BR/>Rather shocked and disappointed that London University would let anyone in with less than AAA.Heyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08333291654356970407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43013964694042644292008-08-20T23:41:00.000+01:002008-08-20T23:41:00.000+01:00A quick suggestion, which is perhaps a bit too sen...A quick suggestion, which is perhaps a bit too sensible, so it will never be acted upon. Drop GCSE and A-Levels as they are a joke and move over to the International Baccalaureate. Schools that teach it are licensed by the Swiss so it can't be messed about with in Britain. Easy-peasy.<BR/><BR/>Want a laugh? My eldest is now on his last year of secondary school, so I am calling around the places that offer IB in Mexico where we live. My assumption had been that he could do the diploma here, then go and live with my tribe in Nelson for a year, work at some job or other, and then apply to University.<BR/><BR/>The reason for that is that even though the thuggish bugger is British, he would still count as an overseas student unless he had the year of residence.<BR/><BR/>Are you ready for this? The period has just gone up to three years.<BR/><BR/>I haven't got the heart to tell him.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12280305663941374991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-3721030599789920182008-08-20T23:05:00.000+01:002008-08-20T23:05:00.000+01:00It's incredibly common in my rather recent experie...It's incredibly common in my rather recent experience of A-levels. Exam boards can give out whatever results they like regardless of how good (or not) a candidate might be - it's totally at their discretion.<BR/><BR/>There's no reason short of threatening to sue over a lost university place for boards to make amends and they are often categorically unwilling to admit they have done anything wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76459539681595391812008-08-20T22:06:00.000+01:002008-08-20T22:06:00.000+01:00pushy bitch of a mother @ 9:31 PM:Keep with it, gi...<B>pushy bitch of a mother @ 9:31 PM:</B><BR/><BR/>Keep with it, girl. You done good.<BR/><BR/>It's not over yet. He won't admit it, but the lad still needs you (and not just for the odd twenty sub).<BR/><BR/>About a decade on, you get the elbow squeeze, the nod, and "Thanks, Mum." Suddenly, it all seems worthwhile.<BR/><BR/>Or so I'm told.<BR/><BR/>Now, for the real event -- how do we generate a nation of pushy bitches of Mums? And nosey bastards of Dads? They are, after all, what made the middle-class and England great (so sayeth this bleeding-heart, small-l, pinko liberal).Malcolm Redfellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11907427518823910875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46850096633591207732008-08-20T21:31:00.000+01:002008-08-20T21:31:00.000+01:00Wallenstein:Meedja studies - over my dead body, ma...Wallenstein:<BR/><BR/>Meedja studies - over my dead body, mate.<BR/><BR/>And stop being a Philadelphia lawyer, will you?<BR/><BR/>Take a pill.<BR/><BR/>I am grateful to everyone for sharing their stories and for their commiserations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10880047163519628252008-08-20T21:05:00.000+01:002008-08-20T21:05:00.000+01:00In my - ahem - 1976 British Constitution O Level, ...In my - ahem - 1976 British Constitution O Level, an administrative error meant that 30+ pupils at my school (and I'm sure more at others) were given the wrong grades. It was pretty obvious that something was awry but it still took weeks to get corrected. I also recall individual errors along the lines of those mentioned in the post. I guess this has always happened.simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15333603569294208240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18152478904622825122008-08-20T20:23:00.000+01:002008-08-20T20:23:00.000+01:00Norman @ 8.08pm is absolutely correct in his comme...<B>Norman @ 8.08pm</B> is absolutely correct in his commentary. However, "[t]here are 3 exam boards in England" might be deceptive. The Welsh Board (WJEC/CBAC) also has syllabuses and sets papers. I know of some "English" schools using this board, and finding it serves them quite nicely.Malcolm Redfellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11907427518823910875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79460569216393681822008-08-20T20:20:00.000+01:002008-08-20T20:20:00.000+01:00Iain,Correction: I typed in 'My son of a friend..'...Iain,<BR/><BR/>Correction: <BR/>I typed in 'My son of a friend..', a serious error which should read'The son of a friend..', Please save me from the wrath of my wife!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com