tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post2085542220519117507..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: ConHome Poll Proves Its IndependenceIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56561411587356508822009-10-05T03:41:43.677+01:002009-10-05T03:41:43.677+01:00Actually the poll was not of conservative activist...Actually the poll was not of conservative activists, ir was of Cons Home readers I recall the invitation said . . .<br /><br />While the average online blogging "readership" and "activist" tends to be more right wing than in real life because those who object most to HMg tend to be more given to object & etc this does highlight a problem.<br /><br />The right had a massive dead weight who want out of the EU come what may. They are not going to shut up and they are a massive problem for Chameleon, who has to try and tickle their tummies until the election is over (and, most likely, it is the turn of someone else to find their swet spots . . .)Quietzapplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15422598703061456846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53634815433507444252009-10-04T15:28:14.639+01:002009-10-04T15:28:14.639+01:00You're right, it's intolerable. This will ...You're right, it's intolerable. This will push some people to declare UDI.constant ginahttp://www.vacationrentalsad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20255546102589491372009-10-04T11:29:51.159+01:002009-10-04T11:29:51.159+01:00Poland and the Czech Republic will now come under ...Poland and the Czech Republic will now come under even more pressure to ratify before the UK GE as the EU knows a referendum in the UK will produce a resounding no result.<br /><br />The EU knows that it will be very difficult for the UK to unwind the Lisbon Treaty once it has been ratified so a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty post ratification is somewhat pointless.<br /><br />The current Conservative position will work providing the Czech's judicial review can be stretched out to past next July(ish). The Poles are expected to sign up within weeks so it will come down to the Czech Republic and/or the UK to stop the Treaty.<br /><br />Question - has Cameron had assurances from Klaus that their judicial review will take longer than that or that it looks like the verdict will be that the Treaty is incompatible with the Czech Constitution?<br /><br />If there is a reasonable chance of either then the current position works as the UK will have a referendum before ratification, a no vote, Treaty off.<br /><br />If there isn't then Cameron has a huge problem on his hands as the current policy will probably become void before the GE.<br /><br />As mentioned a referendum post ratification is somewhat meaningless as the Treaty will already have been ratified and the action that a soverign state can take is very limited.<br /><br />I, therefore think that the Conservative stated position today should be:<br /><br />Referendum if Treaty not ratified by the time a referendum can be held.<br /><br />If Treaty ratified then Referendum on staying in the EU (in its Lisbon form) or leaving the EU.<br /><br />Anything else, in my opinion, will end up being a fudge and I, personally, am sick of this issue being fudged.SHBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5544185270803825602009-10-04T09:16:52.226+01:002009-10-04T09:16:52.226+01:00Anon 8:01 - you are right and it's patent nons...Anon 8:01 - you are right and it's patent nonsense to call for a referendum after the EU has approved it, since by then it is British as well as EU law.<br /><br />It's just vote-mongering by UKIP and the Tories will just forget about it once elected, although they will continue to go on about it before the election a bit to keep the nuttier end of their base on board.<br /><br />This is all really to do with the Tory Party and other parties no longer being broadly-based parties of mass membership. The reasoned voices of people like Rifkind are drowned out by the remnant nutters from the rank and file - Cameron has to pay attention to them to stay in office, even though he doesn't give a fig for their views in reality. Hence the bizarre tie-in with anti-EU Euro-fascists.<br /><br />The biggest shame of all is that this all got started when Margaret Thatcher (previously quite pro-EU) suddenly decided to go all negative to Europe because at that time lefish governments were in charge. Now that things have completely gone the other way, with right-of-centre administrations in all the main countries apart from the UK, the Tory Party is helplessly stuck in this Thatcherite rhetoric at a time when they could be part of a powerful cross-Europe right of centre alliance!<br /><br />Which is why I think that once elected, Cameron will try hard to rebuild bridges, particularly with Sarkozy and Merkel and will eventually bring the Tories back into the mainstream, once he is politically secure enough.DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64585351408316065612009-10-04T09:02:55.512+01:002009-10-04T09:02:55.512+01:00One voice which speaks for British freedom is not ...One voice which speaks for British freedom is not yet silenced..<br /><br /><a href="http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2009/10/boris-johnson-refuses-to-lick-blairs.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49004382666679077022009-10-04T08:33:56.530+01:002009-10-04T08:33:56.530+01:00Boris knows. He's got it right:
http://tinyu...Boris knows. He's got it right:<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/y8br4r2Elliot Kanehttp://elliotkane.proboards.com/index.cginoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90370565488957237962009-10-04T02:17:47.742+01:002009-10-04T02:17:47.742+01:00Tim Montgomerie claims "Lisbon represents a m...Tim Montgomerie claims "Lisbon represents a massive transfer of power and grassroots Tories are right to be worried."<br /><br />Lisbon represents the setting in stone of a massive transfer of power our politicians have been helping with for 30+ years. Grassroots Tories are right to be worried not because Lisbon is something vastly new and different (it is in some areas but is just a continuation of the 'ever greater union' we are already signed up for), grassroots Tories should be worried because Cameron does not represent a new direction.<br /><br />The British problem with the EU has never been in Brussels but in Westminster. The pretence that Parliament is not sovereign is beginning to grate. No past parliament can tie the hands of the current one and the current one cannot tie the hands of a future Parliament. We could exit the EU tomorrow without a problem.(No, really. Parliament <i>allows</i> the European interference in our lives. It doesn't have to.) We could stand up for our national interest far more. Is it working for us? As the world has changed since we started down that road is it still what we wanted? Fully in and spending Euros or fully out is the place to be. It is the faffing about being neither that gets us painted into a corner. <br /><br />France and Germany are fully signed up yet retain a sense of nation that their politicians are prepared to protect. Our hokey-cokey effort means we toe the EU line lest we be seen as not quite as committed as the other major players. Enough. No more. It is time for Britain to shit or get off the pot and that choice should be put to the British people ASAP.Garethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11182144080955551878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13091513223941415372009-10-04T00:22:56.407+01:002009-10-04T00:22:56.407+01:00Dave's message:
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=737Dave's message:<br /><br />http://www.ukip.tv/?p=737ukipwebmasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12240335641832778726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12788192120791781662009-10-03T23:05:55.274+01:002009-10-03T23:05:55.274+01:00Despairing Liberal
Is is that you cannot read? Or...Despairing Liberal<br /><br />Is is that you cannot read? Or is it that you have no compunction about spreading deliberate lies? <br /><br />Here is the exact quote - it is the absolute opposite of what you claim:<br /><br />"Stressing that the BBC's independence is sacrosanct, Hunt is careful about dictating where it must cut. He rejects the call from the Sunday Times for the BBC news website to be scaled back because it is undermining newspaper websites".Victor, NW Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14778890471547456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83183406217415450142009-10-03T22:51:54.618+01:002009-10-03T22:51:54.618+01:00"We'd behave differently (and will) if it..."We'd behave differently (and will) if it was.<br /><br />In 2007, for example, before Brown bottled his honeymoon election we did suppress data:"<br /><br />Good show! Can't imagine what Andrew Rawnsley was worried about.Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90350410061612636432009-10-03T21:28:26.577+01:002009-10-03T21:28:26.577+01:00Who said
"No treaty should be ratified withou...Who said<br />"No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum."<br /><br />Hint http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/eu_referendum/article273758.ece<br /><br />And this as well ...<br /><br />"Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: If I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations."<br /><br />If we cannot trust a cast iron guarantee from Mr Cameron, he, and his party, cannot be trusted.Dannynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85605278634169427962009-10-03T20:01:33.588+01:002009-10-03T20:01:33.588+01:00One thing that almost no one covering this story s...One thing that almost no one covering this story seems to have grasped yet is that if Lisbon is been ratified by every member state then it ceases to be "The Lisbon Treaty" and becomes part of EU-law along with everything else. There is no option to just withdraw your ratification from the Lisbon Treaty and then it stops working: you either have to persuade all 27 Member States to negotiate a new treaty changing everything back (not going to happen if the other 26 wanted the Lisbon provisions in the first place) or you have to leave the EU altogether. Cameron and Hague must know this, hence why they're having to hedge their bets for the time being.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86873073283543539252009-10-03T19:52:51.871+01:002009-10-03T19:52:51.871+01:00The EUSSR and its newly aquired Irish EU Region ha...The EUSSR and its newly aquired Irish EU Region have released the new, updated map of EUIRE.<br /><br />http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1320/ir7.jpgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89469973425403962072009-10-03T18:35:25.057+01:002009-10-03T18:35:25.057+01:00I have to say the last few years have changed my m...I have to say the last few years have changed my mind on the EU.<br /><br />Generally I have been in favour of it and even better integration although I have always loathed the bureaucracy corruption and lack of accountability.<br /><br />I suppose really I liked the idea but wanted the practice to change dramatcially - after all freedom of movement of people and capital and free trade generally make us all better off.<br /><br />Ever since the "constitution"came on to the scene though the whole project has been exposed as totally corrupt and undemocratic.<br /><br />One of the first signs was when Gisela Stuart (one of a very small number of Labour MPs I have any time for - Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Ann Cryer are others) withdrew from the drafting process claiming that Valery Gicard d'Estaing ( a latter day Louis XIV if there ever was one) had steamrolled the rest of the committee. <br /><br />The way the French and Dutch "nos" were brushed aside followed by the Irish "no" should be warnings to us all.<br /><br />I've arrived at the stage where I want the UK to withdraw - look at the troughers who represent the EU in the UK in the last few years - Peter Mandelson, Neil and Glenys Kinnock, Chris Patten - useless politicians who've grotesquely enriched themselves from the public purse.<br /><br />Fuck the lot of them.Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14007635364017144832009-10-03T17:13:56.325+01:002009-10-03T17:13:56.325+01:00I'm awaiting your post about the overwhelming ...I'm awaiting your post about the overwhelming yes vote for the lisbon treaty ! <br /><br />I'm quite suprised by the size of the defeat i'm sure the Tories will answer detailed questions on the subject this week.golden_ballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17002302454171212086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28632659393050725952009-10-03T17:07:45.353+01:002009-10-03T17:07:45.353+01:00We know what happens when parties appear disunited...<i>We know what happens when parties appear disunited.</i><br /><br />Yes, to an extent you're correct that the appearance of disunity is an impediment to a party's electoral chances.<br /><br />However, what we have here is not an <i>appearance</i> of disunity but <i>actual</i> disunity. I contend, Dale, that the Conservative Party will have to make up its mind over Europe generally and over the referendum specifically and it is far, far better that this be done now than when the party is in government.<br /><br />We all remember the Tories under John Major. We all remember the disunity that practically destroyed the party. We all remember how the grassroots were disenfranchised by the parliamentary party, how the tiny band of rebels (who actually represented a majority of British voters) were mistreated by a party that simply did not know where it stood on Europe.<br /><br />To avoid this, we need:<br />1. a firm statement of Conservative policy.<br />2. firm leadership from Cameron in pushing that policy.<br />3. a willingness to accept and deal with face party divisions <i>now</i> rather than putting them off 'til another day when they will grow to be much bigger and much more damaging (and not only to the party but to the country).<br /><br />This is an issue that must be hammered out immediately.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27540243366424119602009-10-03T16:44:38.804+01:002009-10-03T16:44:38.804+01:00"The extremists are tearing themselves apart ..."The extremists are tearing themselves apart already."<br /><br />WHatexactly, sir, is "extreme" in believing that we the people should as readily dispose of our rulers as we elect them ?<br /><br />Typical EU-lovers accusation. THEY are the true extremists, willing to give Great Britain's freedoms away to foreign pen-pushers.<br /><br />Thus proving finally that the pen is mightier than the sword ?<br /><br />Alan DouglasAlan Douglasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23487505017919837892009-10-03T16:37:24.072+01:002009-10-03T16:37:24.072+01:00Anon 2:48 and others. It's incredibly naive to...Anon 2:48 and others. It's incredibly naive to think that talking about "closing down some BBC websites" does not eventually include the one that Murdoch and Rothermere hate above all others - the brilliant, extensive and independent BBC News website, which is one of the leading websites of the world.<br /><br />The Tories will service their alliance with Murdoch and Rothermere by gradually starving it of funds, closing down key areas and eventually emasculating and destroying it piecemeal.<br /><br />This is a calculated and pre-planned assualt on the leading independent news website in the UK worthy of China in it's totalitarian zeal.<br /><br />Their final aim is to ensure that (as in much of the US) only right-wing extremist news, such as that pumped out by Fox, reaches a compliant and docilised audience.<br /><br />Profits will be shared between Murdoch and the Conservatives, many of whom he will place in high posts, such as Iain Dale, who already supports this agenda via his heavily financed regular appearances on Sky.DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11326482719077010862009-10-03T16:35:37.951+01:002009-10-03T16:35:37.951+01:00"Madasafish"-says it all!"Madasafish"-says it all!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33699841513539242972009-10-03T16:32:21.199+01:002009-10-03T16:32:21.199+01:00This "shush don't do or say anything"...This "shush don't do or say anything" nonesense has been used for years to keep the issue on the back burner.Any longer and it will be too late!Time for the men to stand up and the boys to keep quacking.Enough really is enough when you have to keep voting until you produce the vote they want.<br />Was the EPP pledge during the Leadership battle just a cheap Bullingdon trick?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84583428251136957622009-10-03T15:18:25.508+01:002009-10-03T15:18:25.508+01:00If everyone starts yakking about Europe then it sh...If everyone starts yakking about Europe then it shows the Tories as inward looking and not concerned with bigger issues like the recession, the NHS, crap schools and Afghanistan.Andew Efiongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66122553220306260422009-10-03T14:59:07.222+01:002009-10-03T14:59:07.222+01:00Elsby: "It was YOU the Tories that transferre...Elsby: "It was YOU the Tories that transferred all of the power to the EU."<br /><br />All is a strong word, but what did Labour do about it? Gold plate it (with someone else's gold, natch).<br /><br />All three main parties are as bad as each other. It is a Fabian frog-boiling exercise. Lisbon is lip-lickingly close to being ratified.<br /><br />HOWEVER, and it is a big H. Last time I looked, no MPs or Government administrations were authorised or vested in the power to cede sovereignty to a foreign power, nor were they ever lent the authority to change the rules thus.<br /><br />An election is about the lending of sovereignty from and by the people to Government. Lent, mind, not "given" or "handed over".<br /><br />My sovereignty has been handed over like some lawnmower to a neighbour. It has been lent too long. I shall have it back, Sir.<br /><br />Anyone who knows the scenario will appreciate that an almighty stink, hue and cry will rise up when we want our property back. We will be accused of being the troublemakers, the thieves, the cheats. All the louder because the perpetrators have been found out and are about to lose something they covet yet had no legal right to.<br /><br />Cameron is basically playing for time so that no decision has to be made. He thinks that ratification is "ok" but forgets that the House has NO AUTHORITY to sign away my or any other British Citizen's sovereignty.<br /><br />Talk of not ratifying or reversing it is usually tagged with words like "secede" by misc EU Shills. THe fact that they think it is such shows how far their believe our sovereignty has been enclosed.<br /><br />If people here want to become European citizens, then that is their grizzly look-out. I do not. I have no obligation to become one.Tim Carpenter LPUKhttp://lpuk.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19230367198572734572009-10-03T14:48:51.264+01:002009-10-03T14:48:51.264+01:00@ DespairingLiberal
Which part of
"Stressin...@ DespairingLiberal<br /><br />Which part of<br /><br />"Stressing that the BBC's independence is sacrosanct, Hunt is careful about dictating where it must cut. He rejects the call from the Sunday Times for the BBC news website to be scaled back because it is undermining newspaper websites."<br /><br />didn't you understand?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58983115216614680412009-10-03T14:44:26.602+01:002009-10-03T14:44:26.602+01:00Iain,
Can you tell me which site I should visit w...Iain,<br /><br />Can you tell me which site I should visit which will tell me all the facts you and ConHome will be surpressing in the interest of the party?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07017529579484698276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68033999574656136162009-10-03T14:34:42.257+01:002009-10-03T14:34:42.257+01:00Iain,
your blog appears to put the importance of ...Iain,<br /><br />your blog appears to put the importance of Conservative Party unity above that of honestly held opinion about an important political issue. <br /><br />I already detest New Labour for their political machine that allows no dissent and disregards the opinions of 'the little people'.<br /><br />Don't let the Conservatives fall into the same trap.DiscoveredJoyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05300239909689336895noreply@blogger.com