tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post1920245700578377113..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: How 'Junior' Was the Envelope Stuffer?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30403809286014910172007-11-22T18:59:00.000+00:002007-11-22T18:59:00.000+00:00This is a case of deja vu! We remember how poor Da...This is a case of deja vu! We remember how poor David Kelly was initially described by the MOD as of junior, then later middle rank in order to belittle the opinion he gave Andrew Gilligan on the government's WMD case. Yesterday we heard that the HMRC culprit is of 'junior' rank and, today, that he is being protected by a government media minder! All we feel bound to say to the incarcerated Tynsider sitting in his secret motel room is..."Please, please do NOT go walking in the woods anytime soon!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42511843120075578552007-11-22T18:40:00.000+00:002007-11-22T18:40:00.000+00:00So TNT lost a package entrusted to them? And this ...So TNT lost a package entrusted to them? And this is somehow the fault of the civil service.<BR/><BR/>What NO-ONE is saying is that if TNT had done the job that they were paid (with taxpayers money) to do, then there would be no problem here at all!David Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12186639956064833505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34517936978415040652007-11-22T14:09:00.000+00:002007-11-22T14:09:00.000+00:00Are there other avenues of complaint? The Informa...Are there other avenues of complaint? The Information Commissioner seems the obvious choice. I would argue that the data loss is maladministration, could the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman investigate? <BR/><BR/>Also, what would be the best way to frame a complaint - and would this benefit from a co-ordinated approach?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75473603104272871512007-11-22T13:07:00.000+00:002007-11-22T13:07:00.000+00:00young pretender said... "And it's worth rememberin...young pretender said... <BR/>"And it's worth remembering that in the first few years of online tax returns, although you filed the details over the web, when got to the other end, they were printed out and typed into the system... because there was no system, just a printer!"<BR/><BR/>So it saved the postage costs, the handling of incoming assessment forms and the decyphering of scrawled entries on the forms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31727330081471705402007-11-22T08:37:00.000+00:002007-11-22T08:37:00.000+00:00I think last night's 10.000 news mentioned EDS (su...I think last night's 10.000 news mentioned EDS (surprise). The report was:<BR/><BR/>Civil Service management gave instructions that all the data be sent. To do the truly simple job of stripping out just the required data would have required the department to pay more money to EDS to do the simple work. The cheaper option was to send it all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32379936806995166772007-11-22T06:15:00.000+00:002007-11-22T06:15:00.000+00:00Anonymous at 10:51what kind of systems allow such ...Anonymous at 10:51<BR/><BR/><I>what kind of systems allow such a low level civil servant to download information on 25 million people.<BR/><BR/>Of course the blame lies much higher up the organisation,</I><BR/><BR/>Spot on. It is not the 23yo's fault that he's so poorly trained and supervised he can drop a brick like this. The problem is systemic, and the culpability therefore with whoever owns the system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28860281248649496272007-11-21T23:58:00.000+00:002007-11-21T23:58:00.000+00:00Anon 11.00pm, you are right, but it's worse still....Anon 11.00pm, you are right, but it's worse still. The same indifferent self-serving pack who describe themselves as a "government" are also actively waging war, sending British service people who deserve better to their deaths and doing nothing for them; whilst featherbedding their own careers, providing luxurious new headquarters for the MOD etc and pouring money into the contractors. We don't just need a change of government, we need something akin to a purge and a cleansing of the British and international political system. From Brussels to London and from Washington to Baghdad, the whole system is rotten to the core. The oil rich and Goldman Sachs call the shots and their puppets in the Commons do their bidding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13765454050032167102007-11-21T23:38:00.000+00:002007-11-21T23:38:00.000+00:00It would be interesting to see whether those who f...It would be interesting to see whether those who favour public sector management would countenance it in their own offices. Would the New Statesman hand over its subscription database management to the civil service? I think not.<BR/><BR/>Many government employees are still printing out each and every email they receive, because they haven't moved beyond the internal mail memo system. And that's often departmental policy. And it's worth remembering that in the first few years of online tax returns, although you filed the details over the web, when got to the other end, they were printed out and typed into the system... because there was no system, just a printer!Ed Keohanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16214167169821339436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-938948963201385722007-11-21T23:11:00.000+00:002007-11-21T23:11:00.000+00:00They put these departments in Labour areas always ...They put these departments in Labour areas always have always will. The staff combined with the other inhabitants (always on benefits) provide the ideal uninterested workforce. Wasn't the farmers subsidy thing somewhere in that area?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59109800725980318282007-11-21T23:00:00.000+00:002007-11-21T23:00:00.000+00:00Surprise, surprise, the dismal Crapita are involve...Surprise, surprise, the dismal Crapita are involved. This bloated PFI company goes from disaster to disaster and incompetent project to incompetent project, yet continues to receive ever-larger sums of public money. There is quite literally nobody in government who now regulates public expenditure in a practical, agressive manner to defend the taxpayers interests. New Labour ministers are like rabbits in the headlights. All that matters is the huge graft flowing into the pockets of the outsourcing directors running their companies from the Grand Caymans and Bermuda. Nobody in British government cares any longer about Britain or the British. The aim is to make money and to spin, lie and decieve when anything bad happens as a result of the operations of the devastated public services. All approved of course by the WTO deals, which Tories, Labour and LibDems all support and will continue in office.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31588939049715908662007-11-21T22:54:00.000+00:002007-11-21T22:54:00.000+00:00We are getting layers and layers of lies, spin, mi...We are getting layers and layers of lies, spin, misdirection and deception.<BR/><BR/>We were told it was a junior civil servant making a mistake. Lie. Mike Crick has shown on Newsnight tonight that senior civil servants were involved.<BR/><BR/>We were told it was a few CDs. This has been shown to be unlikely - more likely this was a regular bulk carry of a database on multiple media that should never be taken outside HMRC computers. Many computer experts are publicly stating that this is wrong-headed and was directed on a policy level.<BR/><BR/>Outsourcing and muddle following the merger of HMRC plus chaos in the upper levels of management, indifference to the public welfare, utter cluelessness surrounding the protection of data and manifest ignorance, lies and incompetence by ministers. What a sorry bloody mess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90353445117231509212007-11-21T22:51:00.000+00:002007-11-21T22:51:00.000+00:00Seems the guy was a 23 year old AO, so really low ...Seems the guy was a 23 year old AO, so really low down in the pecking order. A lance-corporal at a stretch. Of course the rats want to blame this poor kid but what kind of systems allow such a low level civil servant to download information on 25 million people.<BR/><BR/>Of course the blame lies much higher up the organisation, the lad should have his job back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40690854732181736412007-11-21T22:37:00.000+00:002007-11-21T22:37:00.000+00:00The government defence is possibly worse than real...The government defence is possibly worse than reality. If this leak was made by a junior employee on say 18K facing a 1 in 4 chance of redundancy due to job cuts what is the chance that one of the 25K they are letting go will sell all the info to fund his retirementhwhmpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61956714817654447842007-11-21T22:31:00.000+00:002007-11-21T22:31:00.000+00:00Its apparent from the comments on Sky that both Br...Its apparent from the comments on Sky that both Brown and Darling have misled the house. Unless this is accidental (highly unlikely) they both need to resign.<BR/><BR/>Darling has said it was due to a low grade employee when it was a decision that the department could not cope with the extra 5 minutes work.<BR/><BR/>Brown has said there was a conflict between NAO and the treasury about events when there was not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46289331655882818282007-11-21T22:30:00.000+00:002007-11-21T22:30:00.000+00:00This situation has arisen through institutional in...This situation has arisen through institutional incompetence and a contempt for the integrity of the data held. During my service with the Armed Forces I undertook the duties of Unit Security Officer at two bases, with comprehensive training in security procedures and compliance monitoring. We operated under the Government Protective Marking Scheme (ie restricted, confidential, secret etc). There were laid-down procedures for protectively marking material and for handling procedures. Two principles of security were that the protective marking of material was derived from the damage that could be caused by its unauthorised disclosure, and that the aggregate protective marking of multiple items could be higher than the highest classification of what was contained within. The damage caused by the unauthorised release of personal bank account data is significant enough, but when the database has millions of records, then the consequenses are catastrophic. This is a criminal blunder - there is no way that such data should have been prepared or disseminated without very senior authorisation. I believe that this demonstrates an institutional disregard for the integrity of "our" data. If this had been government information, then someone would end up in the dock over this.<BR/><BR/>There is another lesson that can be drawn from this. ID cards are incredibly risky and incredibly expensive. It is an established security principle that protective measures must be multi-layered ie. a steel safe with a combination lock is secure enouth, but far more secure in a locked room than in a car park. ID cards place a lot of eggs in one basket, and all the emphasis on the basket. If, for example, a terrorist adopts someone's identity (buying a mobile phone used in the planning of a terrorist act in the United States) by bribing a civil service clerk on £14K a year, then the poor sod will have the battle of his or her life to prove their innocence and avoid extradition. It is no good having a cast-iron copper-bottomed biometric system if there are failure points elsewhere in the system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44646112238731887312007-11-21T21:40:00.000+00:002007-11-21T21:40:00.000+00:00Just a point but, Northern Rock, a Newcastle based...Just a point but, Northern Rock, a Newcastle based company,Child Benefit Centre in Wahington, Tyne & Wear (about5-6 miles from N'cle).<BR/>I suggest we re-draw the border with Scotland upon dis-union. We keep our oil & they get the Geordies (fat-necked f***wits). That'll teach 'em.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82443014448615006192007-11-21T21:03:00.000+00:002007-11-21T21:03:00.000+00:00This on 13th November -"IT outsourcing outfit Capg...This on 13th November -<BR/><BR/>"IT outsourcing outfit Capgemini is to slash its workforce at the Inland Revenue by more than 20 per cent following the HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) decision to restructure its Aspire contract."<BR/><BR/>So, against a background of rumours about redundancies, personal financial data disappears. Curious, eh? And the police are known to be investigating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36159106637979112242007-11-21T20:56:00.000+00:002007-11-21T20:56:00.000+00:00As at April 2006 - "HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) ha...As at April 2006 - <BR/><BR/>"HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) has integrated the two separate IT contracts that were in place before the merger of the Customs & Excise and Inland Revenue departments last year.<BR/><BR/>The old Customs & Excise IT contract held by Fujitsu Services will now become part of the 10-year £3bn Aspire IT services contract awarded to Capgemini by the Inland Revenue at the end of 2003.<BR/><BR/>Under the new arrangement Capgemini will continue to be HMRC's main IT supplier with Fujitsu Services the key sub-contractor.<BR/><BR/>HMRC has also extended the Aspire contract to include a new data centre, enhanced print services and a new support centre for the department's 100,000 employees."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34359884150597431622007-11-21T20:44:00.001+00:002007-11-21T20:44:00.001+00:00HMRC IT systems are managed by Fujitsu. Could it ...HMRC IT systems are managed by Fujitsu. Could it be that it was not even a civil servant who extracted the data, but a contractor? If so, he/sh may have been committing an illegal act. Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63602011035256358482007-11-21T20:44:00.000+00:002007-11-21T20:44:00.000+00:00This is the line for Cameron to press home. What w...This is the line for Cameron to press home. What was the job title of the person who was first asked to send the data and what action did he or she then take?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85957479283968182007-11-21T19:24:00.000+00:002007-11-21T19:24:00.000+00:00"Radio 4 anyone but the English" seems to be confi..."Radio 4 anyone but the English" seems to be confirming that a senior figure was involved in sending out the discs.<BR/><BR/>Cameroon missed a trick on this at 12.The Military Wing Of The BBChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04811519612440901811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19368043507231246542007-11-21T19:20:00.000+00:002007-11-21T19:20:00.000+00:00Seems he/she was junior, Tyne Tees Television now ...Seems he/she was junior, Tyne Tees Television now claiming <A HREF="http://curly15.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/hmrc-civil-servant-resigns/" REL="nofollow">he/she has resigned</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33762166884961445742007-11-21T18:49:00.000+00:002007-11-21T18:49:00.000+00:00How many computer terminals are capable of downloa...How many computer terminals are capable of downloading that information to disc? How many people have access to those terminals?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7096099142200097632007-11-21T18:47:00.000+00:002007-11-21T18:47:00.000+00:00ITV News are putting out that it wasn't a "junior ...ITV News are putting out that it wasn't a "junior employee" and the NAO didn't actually ask for the info in the first place - all they wanted were names and National Insurance numbers.<BR/><BR/>But a decision was taken by HMRC that it was "too costly" to separate the data so sent all the information they had - the "junior" just did what he/she was instructed to do.<BR/><BR/>So GB has misled the House, hasn't he? Alistair Darling certainly has.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88711684788106896352007-11-21T18:42:00.000+00:002007-11-21T18:42:00.000+00:00wouldn't it be delicious if it emerged that the "j...wouldn't it be delicious if it emerged that the "junior official" was actually an illegal immigrant?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com