tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post1473290733602215519..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Killing SpeedIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55983287980869778902010-03-09T18:17:01.321+00:002010-03-09T18:17:01.321+00:00I too have just attended a speed awareness course ...I too have just attended a speed awareness course and was deeply suspicious of the 26 (as we were told) minute life expectancy on the hard shoulder. I did a bit of googling and found the actual statistic to be as follows. Of all people killed on the hard shoulder, on average they had been there just under 26 minutes. Talk about white lies, black lies and statistics!!JasonLadashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12235193583214485217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86912743708710187622009-08-28T09:40:33.080+01:002009-08-28T09:40:33.080+01:00a day of unchallenged statistics with an emotional...a day of unchallenged statistics with an emotional tear-jerker sting in the tail. They will get you on an anti-littering course next!alastair harrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48390645793907473042009-08-17T17:18:23.152+01:002009-08-17T17:18:23.152+01:00I don't think you need to do teh course at the...I don't think you need to do teh course at the "just past the test" stage as this information shoudl be communicated in teh drving lessons up to the test anyway.<br />I think we could all do with a reminder in all forms of regular activity when it combines familiarity with danger.<br />I would say there are very few drives post 5-years experience that wouldn't benefit from a course; what better way to select them on a fast-come-first-served basis..I'll get me coat!FRChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00483377797339799496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40226687505149612452009-08-16T01:31:59.045+01:002009-08-16T01:31:59.045+01:00I worked as a retained (part-time) fire-man for 5 ...I worked as a retained (part-time) fire-man for 5 years.<br /><br />In my experience, the major course of road deaths on rural/urban roads were cars occupied by 2 or more "young" people at night. Often these cars were small, say Fiesta sized. The road weight of such cars is 1000kg. <br /><br />Adding three (or even 4) more people to the total weight of the vehicle adds 210kg -21% to the average weight of a small car that the the inexperienced driver is use to. <br /><br />Add peer-group pressure (from the back) on the driver to "go faster" because the car/driver is "crap".<br /><br />Seat belts in the back are often not used.<br /><br />Energy=mass times the velocity squared.<br /><br />If the govt/Police were serious about reducing road deaths they would either <br />1.force car manufacturers of small cars to remove the back seats, as they do in Australia <br />or<br />2.Make it illegal for drivers under, say, 25 (but definitely 21)to carry back-seat passengers after dark or, say 8pm.<br /><br />Ask any, and I do mean ANY Firemen.<br />- Most fatal RTA's involve <br />youngsters after dark.<br /><br />Iain - if you do one thing when you get elected, check the above facts and stop these deaths.Tone made me do it - he's a bad influencenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-92186276829698797552009-08-15T16:29:14.614+01:002009-08-15T16:29:14.614+01:00Forlornehope said... Can I say that you seem to ha...<i>Forlornehope said... Can I say that you seem to have reacted to the course with your usual display of intelligence combined with an open mind</i><br /><br />Well that's a bit bizzare becuase only the other day Mr Dale was railing against the government spending money trying to educate dimwits not to run rail crossings, and here it is spending money trying to educate dimwits who speed but thats OK?prj45https://www.blogger.com/profile/00577925032338977435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67841130130070371212009-08-15T15:45:20.669+01:002009-08-15T15:45:20.669+01:00Iain, I had a poke at you when you first posted on...Iain, I had a poke at you when you first posted on your speeding. Can I say that you seem to have reacted to the course with your usual display of intelligence combined with an open mind. 2500 people die on our roads every year and ten times that number are seriously injured. Any contribution that a person of your influence can have on reducing this is very welcome.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13196592908360647734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6799278875166855562009-08-15T10:53:53.701+01:002009-08-15T10:53:53.701+01:00Ian,
The course leader has clearly told you at le...Ian,<br /><br />The course leader has clearly told you at least two porkies.<br /><br />1)From the Highways Agency website:<br /><br /><i><b>"over 100 people are injured on the hard shoulder each year"</b></i> <br /><br />http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/pressrelease.aspx?pressreleaseid=147425<br /><br />So clearly death can be expected within 12 minutes does not apply to the tens of thousands (like your course leaderI know not the actual figure) of people involved in motorway breakdowns each year. The RAC and AA would very quickly run out of patrol men if she were correct.<br /><br />2) I have never been asked by any hospital if I drove too fast on my way there. They may well ask accident victims that question but that would only be gathering stats from one small select group of people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35797271912346340122009-08-15T05:08:09.313+01:002009-08-15T05:08:09.313+01:00I initially read that sentence as life expectancy ...I initially read that sentence as life expectancy reduced by 12 minutes rather than to 12 minutes. I assume it's typo?Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27368366030714564672009-08-15T00:17:19.233+01:002009-08-15T00:17:19.233+01:00Perhaps the most shocking statistic was when we we...Perhaps the most shocking statistic was when we were told that if you break down on the motorway and decide to sit in your car on the hard shoulder your life expectancy is reduced to 12 minutes - 12 minutes!!!<br /><br />UTTER RUBBISH. IF THIS IS AN ILLUSTRATION OF THE "FACTS" THESE ANTI CAR LEFTIES SPOUT THEN THEY ARE LUTTL MORE THEN PROPAGANDISTS.<br /><br />IF THE AERAGE CAR ON THE HARD SOULDER WAS THERE 1 HOUR, THIS WOULD IMPLY 1 IN 5 ARE CRASHED INTO AND WRECKED. CLEAR NONSENSE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53953723133202999722009-08-14T23:40:54.361+01:002009-08-14T23:40:54.361+01:00Thank you for this very interesting article. Isn&#...Thank you for this very interesting article. Isn't it extraordinary how hostile people are about some of the comments you have made? You have clearly recounted what happened on the course and your feelings but a number of people have been quite unpleasant. <br /><br />My own view is that all of us drivers could do with reflecting honestly about the way we drive our cars. It isn't that much of an imposition to observe the speed limit, where the limit is thirty miles an hour to stay at 25 in town, and where it's sixty, to stay at 55. <br /><br />It would help a lot, though, if police officers in marked cars would observe the speed limit. So few do, and it sets a terrible example. It also adds to the self justification that many people offer for their own speeding.<br /><br />While some of the points made by the trainer seem to be a bit hard to believe, the whole point is that we can reduce the risk of harming others at negligible cost to ourselves by keeping our speed below the posted limit - even if we think we're not likely to be caught. All it takes is some self discipline.Kiera Hardienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43012356879456481602009-08-14T23:01:02.215+01:002009-08-14T23:01:02.215+01:00If remaining in a car stopped on the hard shoulder...If remaining in a car stopped on the hard shoulder reduces one's life expectancy to 12 minutes, why did the Highways Agency introduce driving on the hard shoulder on the M42 at peak times? Wouldn't the extra traffic reduce life expectancy to six or three minutes or nearly instantaneous death? <br />One interesting statistic to discover - how many policemen and women get speeding tickets and, more importantly, get them cancelled for "operational reasons"?Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358349301959327747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87612129212395611772009-08-14T22:34:20.547+01:002009-08-14T22:34:20.547+01:00Good article Iain.
Only by attending such a cours...Good article Iain.<br /><br />Only by attending such a course, do you realise how much you don't know about driving, road safety & legislation.<br /><br />As you say, every driver should have to attend a session before getting a full licence.Joe Publicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14092018788471537342009-08-14T22:00:37.097+01:002009-08-14T22:00:37.097+01:00Iain, why don't you answer all of the question...Iain, why don't you answer all of the questions that you have been asked?<br /><br />I'm wondering whether you even read these blog comments.<br /><br />TonyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63070566018868876462009-08-14T20:49:56.479+01:002009-08-14T20:49:56.479+01:00Interesting reading; I like to think I'm prett...Interesting reading; I like to think I'm pretty good about road speed, often annoying the driver behind by going a genuine 30 when I should...<br /><br />The 12 minute figure is bollocks though, and to be honest Iain, I'm surprised you didn't realise. It would imply objects on the hard shoulder get hit on average every 12 minutes. Simply can't be true.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12852484333709311643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-3611697364263313232009-08-14T19:09:31.340+01:002009-08-14T19:09:31.340+01:00"If not, then it's made up bollocks isn&#..."If not, then it's made up bollocks isn't it."<br /><br />I suspect it may not be the most vigorous survey ever taken but I wouldn't discount it. How often do police cause accidents during chases?<br /><br />The 12 minute life expectancy sounded the most specious. Not that I doubt the figure but that if you drew up a list of everything that statistically knocked twelve minutes off, you'd never get out of bed.Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17884840716786391772009-08-14T18:52:51.030+01:002009-08-14T18:52:51.030+01:00The 12 minute stat must be a lie because there are...The 12 minute stat must be a lie because there are no stats for people who stop on the hard-shoulder, so how can they count ? I suspect the stat is for those people who are hit whilst stopped on the hard shoulder, the average time before they are hit is 12 minutes ! An important distinction.<br /><br />Similary, how can there be stats for the number of people speeding whilst heading to the hospital ? Possibly this if of the number of people caught speeding, 15% were involved in an accident. Again an important distinction.<br /><br />Whenever these sorts of stats are given out, you should be asking how they have been measured. Are they just estimates ? Is there hard data and how was it collected ? People use stats to justify their point but unless the person giving them has training in statistical analysis, what is said is often wrong. 37% of stats are made up on the spot, including that one.Jimbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1541338403599857392009-08-14T18:38:48.142+01:002009-08-14T18:38:48.142+01:00AP said... Your advice doesn't work for automa...<i>AP said... Your advice doesn't work for automatics</i><br /><br /><br />An automatic I had let me select positions one, two, three or Drive. If I selected one of the first three positions the car wouldn't go above that gearing (except in extreme circumstances).<br /><br />The manual suggested keeping the stick in position three when driving in hilly areas.<br /><br /><i>AP said... To 'glance' at your speedo takes about 0.75 seconds allowing for eye movement and change of focus. In variable road conditions and on gradients you need to be glancing at your speedo every 10 seconds or so if you want to be certain of not going over 30 for a nano second </i><br /><br />This is utter rubbish.<br /><br />Maybe if you practised driving at 30mph you might be able to do it more readily.<br /><br />And if you're not confident of not going over 30 then travel around at 25 giving you a bigger margin for error; 30 is just the limit after all.<br /><br />And just glacing at your speedo does not mean you loose sight of the road in front, unless you have tunnel vision in which case you probably shouldn't be driving.prj45https://www.blogger.com/profile/00577925032338977435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90387156292244130722009-08-14T18:19:30.509+01:002009-08-14T18:19:30.509+01:00PRJ 45
I am familiar with engine braking, which i...PRJ 45<br /><br />I am familiar with engine braking, which is.....a form of braking. <br /><br />Your advice doesn't work for automatics, and the advice to drive around town in second gear only works if your car happens to be geared for that speed/gradient/gear ratio/gear combination. At naughty driver school they recommend you drive around town in second gear, although this conflicts with most other advice on fuel economy etc. My car happens to do 95 in second. Gravity pulls it over 30 on a light gradient I am afraid, even in first (four speed auto).<br /><br />To 'glance' at your speedo takes about 0.75 seconds allowing for eye movement and change of focus. In variable road conditions and on gradients you need to be glancing at your speedo every 10 seconds or so if you want to be certain of not going over 30 for a nano second (think about how often you check your speedo if the police are behind you) which means your are spending at least 7.5% of your time not looking at the road.<br /><br />Given that speed cameras are at supposed accident blackspots and the first thing EVERY driver does when they see one is check there speed what is being achieved is to get people to take there eyes OFF the road at the most dangerous point. How is that sensible? <br /><br />At 30 you will have travelled about 30 foot at each glance. That could be a very unlucky 30 foot for a pedestrian.<br /><br />I passed my test first time, thank you.APnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62007250326883231732009-08-14T17:19:33.492+01:002009-08-14T17:19:33.492+01:00AP said... For all of those good citizens who neve...<i>AP said... For all of those good citizens who never ever speed, how do you know if you don't constantly watch your speedo. Personally I would prefer to take my chances with a driver who was watching the road</i><br /><br />Do you actually stare at your speedo when you drive along, or take quick looks at it every now and again?<br /><br />FYI, when going downhill you shouldn't be using your brakes but your gears to maintain your speed.<br /><br />How did you pass your test? You can't speed on it, or drive around staring down at your speedo.<br /><br />Sounds like somebody needs to learn how to drive!prj45https://www.blogger.com/profile/00577925032338977435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13613478782755762192009-08-14T14:32:05.953+01:002009-08-14T14:32:05.953+01:00@ Jimmy
A fair point but let's unpick this a l...@ Jimmy<br />A fair point but let's unpick this a little further. Do they take a sample of say 1000 people and ask did you drive too fast on the way here? And do they seriously believe they are going to get a truthful answer or an accurate answer even if sincere? Then, presumably they must survey A&E admission car crash victims, establish how many of them were taking people to hospital at the time of their accident and then establish whether they were driving too fast, then somehow correlate the results of the two questionnaires. If they are really doing this, I would suggest we have, between us, identified a big public spending cut. If not, then it's made up bollocks isn't it.Peter Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10160969659406125314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79998496151856937062009-08-14T14:05:35.485+01:002009-08-14T14:05:35.485+01:00"Do they ask everyone who drives someone to h..."Do they ask everyone who drives someone to hospital whether they drove too fast on the way?"<br /><br />Of course. In much the same way that the entire electorate is interviewed for opinion polls.Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61736979346418218442009-08-14T12:04:16.042+01:002009-08-14T12:04:16.042+01:00Iain,
I's a fact that 75% of all quoted stati...Iain,<br /><br />I's a fact that 75% of all quoted statistics are made up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63834828513375074522009-08-14T11:50:53.460+01:002009-08-14T11:50:53.460+01:00Iain,
I could weep. You are plainly an intelligen...Iain, <br />I could weep. You are plainly an intelligent man and yet, like so many people, you swallow any statistic, however palpably absurd. “15% of people who drive too fast to get someone to hospital end up there themselves through having an accident’’. How can anyone possibly arrive at that? Do they ask everyone who drives someone to hospital whether they drove too fast on the way? And the 12 minute life expectancy when you stay in your car on the hard shoulder. I wonder what their sampling was like for that little gem. There are lies, damned lies and statistics and glaring whoppers told to sensationalise what would be a perfectly sound argument anyway but which is only undermined by treating the public like impressionable children.Peter Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10160969659406125314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29339987590409027712009-08-14T11:50:08.269+01:002009-08-14T11:50:08.269+01:00It seems curious that speed safety is governed by ...It seems curious that speed safety is governed by the "just in case you hit someone" mentality, rather than general, all-round safety and good driving. <br /><br />I think it's a fairly fatuous argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7095898960065079762009-08-14T11:46:24.515+01:002009-08-14T11:46:24.515+01:00Iain, do you believe everything the State tells yo...Iain, do you believe everything the State tells you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com