tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post116704973340700954..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: A Christmas Without NickIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167335949496759642006-12-28T19:59:00.000+00:002006-12-28T19:59:00.000+00:00VoyagerStoic? That depends on your reference. If b...Voyager<BR/><BR/>Stoic? That depends on your reference. If by that you mean someone who prefers to follow where reason leads, then I'm happy to take the label. However, I would be less inclined to accept the more modern emphasis on the idea of someone who suppresses feelings or who is indifferent to them. <BR/><BR/>Granted I have a traditional English dislike for public displays of grief - bawling in the streets is so latin. But beyond that I am perfectly open to my emotions, including pain and sadness. I just don't see religion as a solution to them. I accept others do, and if it helps them sleep easier at night, then fine. <BR/><BR/>However, what I was objecting to was not your religious belief - where we simply disagree - but rather your condescending tone of 'pity the poor unbeliever' and your assertions about the ability of the non-believer to comprehend death. Comments which suggest that if I am egocentric in my regard for my opinions, I am certainly no more so than your good self.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167294662009293002006-12-28T08:31:00.000+00:002006-12-28T08:31:00.000+00:00It may not be intended, but I trust you realise qu...<I>It may not be intended, but I trust you realise quite how self-righteous you sound -</I><BR/><BR/>Your inferences are egocentrical but that may well be your nature. <BR/><BR/>Your failure to conceive of any form of existence beyond the one you have today is I agree, limiting for you in so many ways, but when you exist outside the Grace of God you have little choice but to make the best of it.<BR/><BR/>I admire your Stoicism but fortunately am not reduced to sharing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167266990036277162006-12-28T00:49:00.000+00:002006-12-28T00:49:00.000+00:00Alfred of Wessex writes in the lofty sweep of the ...Alfred of Wessex writes in the lofty sweep of the universally pretentious: <I>"Your tone indicates to me that you have not lost anyone close to you. If you had, you would not be so judgmental."</I><BR/><BR/>You are an impertinent, ignorant, insensitive, delusional, judgemental, self-righteous, complacent, pathetic knuckle-dragger with the intellectual acuity of an iguana. I would add that you have the "emotional intelligence" of an iguana as well, but I think the iguanas have the edge on you there.<BR/><BR/>Don't give up the prehensile tail, but do try to develop an opposable thumb, there's a good chap. Then we won't have to keep holding the bananas while you eat.<BR/><BR/>Voyager, good post and I agree with your thinking.<BR/><BR/>Lerxst, your post was also interesting and thought-provoking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167264443563298012006-12-28T00:07:00.000+00:002006-12-28T00:07:00.000+00:00Voyager"it is religion that makes death comprehens...Voyager<BR/><BR/>"it is religion that makes death comprehensible"<BR/><BR/>It may not be intended, but I trust you realise quite how self-righteous you sound - even more so in your previous posting 'pitying' the poor woman for her lack of a 'spiritual advisor'.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I do not believe in gods or an afterlife but I find death perfectly comprehensible. It is the sad, and very final, reality of the ending of a life. <BR/><BR/>Inevitably, trying to come to terms with the fact that you will never again see someone whom you cared about deeply, provokes strong emotion. It's not that death is incomprehensible, but rather that loss is painful and difficult to accept. <BR/><BR/>As for death being the 'goal of all our lives', while I accept it's our ultimate destination, I prefer to see making the most of the journey as the goal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167259201916819902006-12-27T22:40:00.000+00:002006-12-27T22:40:00.000+00:00Your tone indicates to me that you have not lost a...<I>Your tone indicates to me that you have not lost anyone close to you. If you had, you would not be so judgmental.</I><BR/><BR/>Unreasonable conclusion - but the notion of a "bereavement counsellor" is suggestive of a secular mindset when it is religion that makes death comprehensible.<BR/><BR/>Mr Clarke's widow Barbara Want is a BBC producer and his second wife.<BR/><BR/><I>especially when the loved one was not a Christian</I><BR/><BR/>That was precisely the point being made - and it is especially hard for non-Christians to comprehend death especially in an era where life has become a soap-opera with death treated as a departure from the script rather than the goal of all livesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167251160082455242006-12-27T20:26:00.000+00:002006-12-27T20:26:00.000+00:00Billy - No,no!Billy - No,no!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167238587825573512006-12-27T16:56:00.000+00:002006-12-27T16:56:00.000+00:00Sorry Verity,I put it in single quotes to indicate...Sorry Verity,<BR/>I put it in single quotes to indicate that I couldn't think of a more suitable word. I wasn't trying to infer that I was quoting you. I'd have used double quotes for that.<BR/>No harm done I hope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167197590698008932006-12-27T05:33:00.000+00:002006-12-27T05:33:00.000+00:00Billy, you write in an accusatory voice: "When I ...Billy, you write in an accusatory voice: "When I used my counsellor I also 'used' my wife's vicar."<BR/><BR/>At no point in my post did I refer to the verb "to use". That is your construction and you therefore should not have put it in quotes.<BR/><BR/>I am glad, though, that you were helped and that your vicar is helping.<BR/><BR/>When I lived in England, I worked with a woman who did volunteer work as a "pet grief" counsellor and helped people come to terms with the death of a beloved animal companion. This struck me as worthwhile because Christianity for some reason does not acknowledge that pets have souls, whereas, we know that they do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167179413317351942006-12-27T00:30:00.000+00:002006-12-27T00:30:00.000+00:00verity said...Yes, Voyager. There is something so ...verity said...<BR/>Yes, Voyager. There is something so poverty-stricken about having to turn to a "bereavement counsellor" - even the term is spine-chillingly false and socialist. Why not go the whole hog and term this bereavement counsellor "Big Sister"?<BR/><BR/>She tragically lost her beloved husband, and she has no spiritual advisor to help her to understand. No priest, no clergyman, no rabbi. Just a socialist "bereavement counsellor", doubtless provided free by the state. <BR/><BR/>2:11 PM<BR/><BR/>Verity,<BR/>When I used my counsellor I also 'used' my wife's vicar. He was a great help to me and I became a regular church goer (I hesitate to say Christian because I am still working on it), but the counsellor had the one piece of advice that made my life right again immediately. The vicar's information may well serve me for longer though.<BR/>Counsellors don't claim special insights but they do have a lot of experience gained over time that can help. I promise you that when you are in the depths of despair you are not expecting there to be a next year let alone feeling stronger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167160331245300492006-12-26T19:12:00.000+00:002006-12-26T19:12:00.000+00:00I hope for her sake that she is stronger next year...I hope for her sake that she is stronger next year, but from my experience I'd say that Jeremy Jacobs is closer to the truth when he says that you never get over losing someone close.<BR/><BR/>What's more, this time of year tends to bring loss to the fore, particularly if the person who's gone was someone who loved Christmas and had the ability to enthuse others, at what can be a easy time to be miserable and cynical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167142285108667812006-12-26T14:11:00.000+00:002006-12-26T14:11:00.000+00:00Yes, Voyager. There is something so poverty-stric...Yes, Voyager. There is something so poverty-stricken about having to turn to a "bereavement counsellor" - even the term is spine-chillingly false and socialist. Why not go the whole hog and term this bereavement counsellor "Big Sister"?<BR/><BR/>I feel very sorry for the lady who lost her husband, who she obviously loved - and loves - very much. But she is doubly bereft. She tragically lost her beloved husband, and she has no spiritual advisor to help her to understand. No priest, no clergyman, no rabbi. Just a socialist "bereavement counsellor", doubtless provided free by the state. <BR/><BR/>And this "bereavement counsellor", while doubtless having a sympathetic turn of mind, would not have the intellectual wherewithal or spiritual training to offer guidance in the greater scheme of things. Instead, this individual talks in platitudes. "You'll feel stronger this time next year." Whoaah! <I>There's</I> an original insight!<BR/><BR/>I feel very sorry for the widow, though. She is clearly in terrible pain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167115079081819862006-12-26T06:37:00.000+00:002006-12-26T06:37:00.000+00:00Yes Verity.........it does sound so very Guradian/...Yes Verity.........it does sound so very Guradian/BBC doesn't it ? But if you have no religion death becomes incomprehensibleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167091924746902252006-12-26T00:12:00.000+00:002006-12-26T00:12:00.000+00:00...by Nick Clarke's wife Barbara Want...Doesn't th...<I>...by Nick Clarke's wife Barbara Want...</I><BR/><BR/>Doesn't that make her name 'Barbara Clarke' surely?<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, my girlfriend lost her father on 23rd of Dec 6 years ago. She was out in Australia watching the Ashes at the time; had to fly back (Quantas were really considerate) and Christmas will never be the same for her ever again. Or for me.<BR/><BR/>On a more cheery note: Merry Christmas Iain and to all contributors to this great site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167075796996868872006-12-25T19:43:00.000+00:002006-12-25T19:43:00.000+00:00Although both my parents are still around, I lost ...Although both my parents are still around, I lost my <A HREF="http://www.justgiving.com/jeremycj" REL="nofollow">sister</A> in 1988. <BR/><BR/>You never get over it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167075033965283882006-12-25T19:30:00.000+00:002006-12-25T19:30:00.000+00:00Bereavement counsellors help you take short cuts t...Bereavement counsellors help you take short cuts to get over the grief. I used a counsellor when I had PTS come upon me a month after nearly drowning. One piece of information solved my problem immediately. I could have been in misery for several more weeks before finding it myself.<BR/>What bothers me about this is that a minor celebrity dies and next thing we have the wife and kids paraded publicly. Presumably there is money in it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167073664242241002006-12-25T19:07:00.000+00:002006-12-25T19:07:00.000+00:00Iain, you are a very lucky man to reach 40 plus wi...Iain, you are a very lucky man to reach 40 plus without suffering a loss. It has happened to most of us by then.<BR/><BR/><BR/> My wonderful grand daughter visited us today and it was real fun. It helped, as always,to make my Christmas. All the best<BR/><BR/><BR/> I cant stand football!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167073140420008422006-12-25T18:59:00.000+00:002006-12-25T18:59:00.000+00:00Happy Christmas Iain. In today's world it is alwa...Happy Christmas Iain. In today's world it is always good to remember how fortunate we are to have those we love around us. I do hope you enjoy your Chirstmas, and I naturally hope West Ham win tomorrow!<BR/><BR/>Yours<BR/>James TumbridgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1167056634752906232006-12-25T14:23:00.000+00:002006-12-25T14:23:00.000+00:00"Bereavement counsellor"?<I>"Bereavement counsellor"?</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com