tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post1003471043281426656..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Will This Be a Sad Day for Democracy?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74866627368828285852009-10-05T14:40:13.453+01:002009-10-05T14:40:13.453+01:00@David Linsey:
1. EUR created by Maastricht 1992....@David Linsey:<br /><br />1. EUR created by Maastricht 1992. UK opts out, Ireland does not. 5 years later Tony Blair becomes PM. Not sure how your take on it tallies with that.<br /><br />2. "Mass provision of troops for the British Army". Not exactly government policy though. British Army doesn't ristricted enrollment to its own nationals, so some Irish join up. Whats the big deal?<br /><br />3. Yes there was an common travel area (and common voting), the position of teh North in the Irish constitution made it somewhat necssary (I was always suprised that the UK went along with it, but thats a different matter). <br /><br />4. "Those who feel strongly about a distinctive, and so far as possible self-governing, Ireland are like those who feel strongly about a Catholic Ireland, or a Gaelic Ireland, or an Ireland which cherishes the lore of Irish Nationalism: the only such Ireland now is within the United Kingdom, where these things are actively encouraged economically, socially, culturally and politically. In the Republic, they are being systematically suppressed."<br /><br />Thats just, well, peculiar. I'm aware from your post that you live in the UK (and assume you are British), but it doesn't sound like you've ever set foot in Ireland.<br /><br />@Paul:<br /><br />"The European Central Bank has funded Irish banks to the tune of 77% GDP equivalent. "<br /><br />Firstly, equivalent to what? The ECB deals in EUR, we deal in EUR. Or do you mean PPP? Which would still be peculiar since it would be PPP compared to what? Anyway, more to the point, the ECB has funded Irish Banks to the tune of E142bn? Really? You want to back that up?<br /><br /><br />Finally to all: Does anybody actually think that weird little word rearrangements (EUSSR, rEUpublic etc) actually add anything other then making the post look like a kook?mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03870501808268786381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46250908741003655282009-10-05T07:24:16.741+01:002009-10-05T07:24:16.741+01:00Iain,
This is a foregone concusion -the European C...Iain,<br />This is a foregone concusion -the European Central Bank has funded Irish banks to the tune of 77% GDP equivalent. No-one is going to allow a scenario to evolve where these loans are called in,or even the threat of that and bankrupt a member state,hence the enormous pressure for a yes vote. I am sure Ireland will get its come uppance at a later date - our EU masters have long memories.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4381847777631008122009-10-04T08:58:03.643+01:002009-10-04T08:58:03.643+01:00Gary Elsby, rejected by Stoke, stoke said...
&quo...<b>Gary Elsby, rejected by Stoke, stoke said...</b><br /><br />"Ireland votes YES.<br /><br />So will the UK anyday of the week."<br /><br />So, the NuLab traitors betrayed their promise to hold a referandum only because they thought they would win it?<br /><br />Ha ha ha ha haAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64262079167529327942009-10-04T04:01:54.536+01:002009-10-04T04:01:54.536+01:00I am very surprised the way Ireland voted, but the...I am very surprised the way Ireland voted, but they are desperate because of the economy.Lisahttp://www.vacationrentalsad.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36235691362671796472009-10-03T21:32:01.641+01:002009-10-03T21:32:01.641+01:00If the EU post-Lisbon treaty is that brilliant why...If the EU post-Lisbon treaty is that brilliant why is the referendum not held in each country? The EU is ruled by commissars and is the worst "backroom fixing " shop in the world.<br />American president is elected after going through gruel primaries. The post- LisbonEU president is appointed by a "backroom fixing" by a cabal consisting of Merkel, Sarkozy et. al. Those who ridicule us who question this integration by a parliament majority dictat<br />(we the citizens never voted here, but the corrupt MPs did) must be really ashamed. I am not an Eurosceptic but this charade of <br />fixing the EU president makes me question this EU mad dream. If Blair becomes the EU president, all Cameron has to do is say in his election manifesto that he will fight Brussels and he will get a landslide victory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11906009773088478082009-10-03T17:51:50.043+01:002009-10-03T17:51:50.043+01:00The Irish never have got the hang of this independ...The Irish never have got the hang of this independence lark. Mass provision of troops for the British Army as if nothing had happened. No passport controls at the docks. A built-in one-for-one arrangement with sterling until into the 1980s. So many of them living over here that they have always been able to vote and stand in our elections. And much more besides.<br /><br />They only went in because we were going to, so economically they couldn’t not. They were only able to keep out of NATO because they knew that, with our not insignificantly Irish Armed Forces as much as anything else, we were always going to protect them anyway. They joined the Euro because, in the early Blair years, they thought that we might.<br /><br />The spectator sees more of the game. The Irish can see how signed up to European federalism we are. And that is why they are. Only more honestly. They certainly wouldn’t mind Tony Blair as President anything like as much as people in his own country would. Sinn Féin has always called Dublin governments “British governments by proxy”. Well, that was clearly what people wanted. With the EU now Britain’s government, having it headed by an Englishman, Scotsman, or whatever it is that he is (”Simply British”?) is anything but an argument against it to them. It is more like the natural order.<br /><br />Those who feel strongly about a distinctive, and so far as possible self-governing, Ireland are like those who feel strongly about a Catholic Ireland, or a Gaelic Ireland, or an Ireland which cherishes the lore of Irish Nationalism: the only such Ireland now is within the United Kingdom, where these things are actively encouraged economically, socially, culturally and politically. In the Republic, they are being systematically suppressed. With, it transpires today, enthusiastic public support.David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9029096646854471862009-10-03T16:13:06.592+01:002009-10-03T16:13:06.592+01:00A good day for Ireland and Europe. A resounding YE...A good day for Ireland and Europe. A resounding YES. Nigel and the UKIP, thank you....take your mousy face to Warsaw and thank you for your meddling in this referendum!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76808942787202060962009-10-03T15:19:00.494+01:002009-10-03T15:19:00.494+01:00A good day for Ireland
A good day for Europe
......A good day for Ireland<br /><br />A good day for Europe<br /><br />...and a Great day for Democracy!<br /><br />Hooray!!!!Paddy Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17847108655078927970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35794308391126038352009-10-03T14:30:42.982+01:002009-10-03T14:30:42.982+01:00An excellent result for Ireland, Europe and Great ...An excellent result for Ireland, Europe and Great Britain - Iain, you must be over the moon!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26519731065741572932009-10-03T13:00:28.443+01:002009-10-03T13:00:28.443+01:00Congratulations. When do you and Nigel Farage get...Congratulations. When do you and Nigel Farage get over to Dublin to collect your medals from Biffo for guaranteeing a better than expected yes vote by your meddling in Irish politics?Richard Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17225331967587897653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40950586206929947612009-10-03T12:23:44.206+01:002009-10-03T12:23:44.206+01:00I guess Tories struggle with the definition of dem...I guess Tories struggle with the definition of democracy.<br /><br />The day Thatcher lauded Pinochet for "bringing democracy to Chile" is a prime exampleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74060366728910841692009-10-03T11:49:30.469+01:002009-10-03T11:49:30.469+01:00I think the answer is simple - I would be happy to...I think the answer is simple - I would be happy to continue EU memebership/governance once the accounts have been signed off. What right thinking government could give tax payers money to an organisation with such poor financial controls? No referendum required -it's the government's duty.<br /><br />Should buy us 20 years on current form.Procrustesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45710524907163113382009-10-03T11:39:25.095+01:002009-10-03T11:39:25.095+01:00Ireland votes YES.
So will the UK anyday of the w...Ireland votes YES.<br /><br />So will the UK anyday of the week.Gary Elsby stokenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47409506578659556492009-10-03T10:47:14.541+01:002009-10-03T10:47:14.541+01:00Ummmm....Anon 11.06 and the other multiple referen...Ummmm....Anon 11.06 and the other multiple referendum fans...<br /><br />would there be a second referendum if the Irish had voted Yes originally?<br /><br />Has any of the Treaty been changed?<br /><br />Why is the 1975 UK referendum seen as binding and the last Irish one is not?<br /><br />Your argument and the argument of all Euphiles as far as I can see is that democracy means getting the answer you want.<br /><br />So, to repeat: if Labour lose the Election, and don't change any of their policies, but give meaningless "assurances" to the public, it would be wholly legitimate to run the Election again 18 months later, yes?<br /><br /><br />word verification: crili. Oh the irony.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23690346532621008722009-10-03T10:44:42.309+01:002009-10-03T10:44:42.309+01:00Gary Elsby, rejected by stoke, must be on 'med...Gary Elsby, rejected by stoke, must be on 'medication'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21255455178699068782009-10-03T08:23:04.169+01:002009-10-03T08:23:04.169+01:00The antagonism that the new 'modern' Tory ...The antagonism that the new 'modern' Tory party has to the EU appears to be a binding foil of inappropriate politics which seems to resemble the distasteful hatred of foreigners by the BNP.<br /><br />The chances of the Conservatives holding (Dave lies) a referendum of membership or of the Lisbon Treaty is nil.<br /><br />The chances of a Conservative Government(I jest) winning its own question in a referendum would be nil and the greatest humiliation the Conservatives could ever suffer.<br /><br />No chance could this current set up under Dave's rule win the case for 'against' or withdrawal secured via the under 35 vote.<br /><br />There may be a longer history of EEC vs EU via the older generation but the globalised picture of progress totally flattens the case for the BNP line of isolation.<br /><br />Who would protect us from the conditions of the single marketplace of a combined EU and who would afford us help to a protectionist USA?<br /><br />Dave only fooled the conservative membership to get a job, he knows he can't fool the rest of the UK.<br /><br />It's a losing position. Own up.Gary Elsby stokenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60840343044989087562009-10-02T23:58:12.251+01:002009-10-02T23:58:12.251+01:00If, as everyone assumes, Ireland votes yes, this w...If, as everyone assumes, Ireland votes yes, this will prove to me that no-one votes on principle anymore.<br /><br />Two years ago when Ireland was a Tiger economy and an 'arc of prosperity' they felt confident enough to say no the the EU 'superstate project'.<br /><br />IMO, they were right to do so. I am genuinely fearful of what our EU masters have planned for us.<br /><br />OK.<br /><br />Everyone in Europe were peed off with the Irish as they had unimagined subsidy thrown at them and they were ungrateful.<br /><br />Now that their economy is in a mess they now are going to support the EU superstate that they had previously rejected.<br /><br />This is not good enough.<br /><br />IMO, every nation of the EU should have a new referendum to decide if they want to be part of the EU or not.<br /><br />We cannot continue with these guerilla tactics.<br /><br />I honestly do not know if I would vote for, or against the EU. But, I feel that, as a nation, we need to make a decision.<br /><br />For the last 20 or so years we have been an unwilling partner.<br /><br />We need to make a final decision.John Chaytornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6898483194544139712009-10-02T23:42:23.473+01:002009-10-02T23:42:23.473+01:00It looks like yesIt looks like <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cknCSgs69fA" rel="nofollow">yes</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89629647783342932312009-10-02T23:06:01.761+01:002009-10-02T23:06:01.761+01:00Ummmmm,,,, Iain????
People change their minds yo...Ummmmm,,,, Iain???? <br /><br />People change their minds you know! Circumstances change too. <br /><br />Having a vote and giving people a chance to have their say is not anti-democratic at all. <br /><br />We have General Elections - nobody ever says "we shouldn't have another one - we've already had some!" <br /><br />Voting = good. ISn't that a Tory mantra?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90326281572166692442009-10-02T22:58:55.433+01:002009-10-02T22:58:55.433+01:00As someone with Irish, Hungarian, French and Engli...As someone with Irish, Hungarian, French and English ancestry I quite like to be told that some of the seaside coastal areas are in the same EU region as adjacent French ones.<br /><br />Almost as far away from London too.Quietzapplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15422598703061456846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19981780227653658862009-10-02T21:29:39.790+01:002009-10-02T21:29:39.790+01:00And the same, indoctrinated, Subsudy drunk irish w...And the same, indoctrinated, Subsudy drunk irish want to 'rule the North' do they?.<br /><br />If its a 'Yes' vote you wont even rule the 'SOUTH!'.<br /><br />The rEUpublic of Brussels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70954774613649462382009-10-02T21:20:01.951+01:002009-10-02T21:20:01.951+01:00This English person couldnt give a monkeys if Irel...This English person couldnt give a monkeys if Ireland votes yes or not, or if Scotland, Wales or N Ireland votes yes too, just keep England OUT of it!, after all England is the only country who doesnt need ANY of the above named EU 'Regions' OR the EU!.<br /><br />This Constitreaty will have absolutely NO legitimacy in England and would be a total SHAM!.<br /><br />I dont want a referendum on the Lisbon Constitreaty....i want, nay DEMAND a referendum on EU MEMBERSHIP!.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9172631991347958192009-10-02T20:22:57.763+01:002009-10-02T20:22:57.763+01:00So when do we start bombing Brussels then?So when do we start bombing Brussels then?Nuke 'emnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50044019688646722472009-10-02T19:44:46.824+01:002009-10-02T19:44:46.824+01:00Much as I pray that my forefathers vote 'no...Much as I pray that my forefathers vote 'no', it can hardly be described as a 'sad day for democracy' when people vote on summat.<br /><br />Come on, Iain: get a grip. Is it only democracy if we agree with the result?<br /><br />Surely the job now is to ensure that our party pledges to give us that which the government has denied: namely, a referendum on Lisbon? What's so hard about that?Scouse Torynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86430309236412214282009-10-02T19:28:40.678+01:002009-10-02T19:28:40.678+01:00Irish Police threaten referendum monitors to back ...Irish Police threaten referendum monitors to back off or face arrest. <a href="http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2009/10/irish-police-threaten-referendum.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a><br /><br />Looks like a fix.<br /><br />A third referendum will be required.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.com