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Wednesday, June 10, 2009
PMQs: What Did You Think?
I'm in meetings until mid afternoon (and lunch with the lovely Anne Diamond!) so please do use this thread to discuss what happened at PMQs.
But I must say I am getting tired of the spending cuts argument against Tories.
Yes, the country is in a mess. The economy is in tatters and being crushed by a massive deficit, we have to repay. We cant sustain this level of debt.
So yes, spending cuts, by any party are necessary. We have to seize this issue and ask what Labour propose to do to repay debt. You cannot spend more to repay debt.
David Cameron needs to call this issue simply like Mrs Thatcher did so the public understand. A family cannot spend what it cant afford, without huge debt and interest issues. Spend too much and your house will be taken back. Hence families have to reduce their spending and make cuts in their lives. This could be turned into an election winning issue if played right.
Brown the bankrupter, spending tax payers money, leaving our future generations in debt.
Brown makes my blood boil! He will not answer a question and instead addresses questions to DC. What with of Prime Minister's Questions doesn't he get?
Cameron trounces the Jock as usual, Broon blustering, not answering ANY questions whatsoever, and saying 'this country' and 'our country' a lot in order to avoid saying the word "England" because hes an anti-English unelected Scotch Dictator with no say over his own country, only England.
He MUST NOT be allowed to rig the electoral system!!!!.
DC could have made more of the point that Brown made when he said from their experience on the doorstep electoral reform was an issue that the public were interested.
We all know that is garbage, but if the Government is prepared to listen to a small number of people on the issue of electoral reform why won't they listen to the members of the public (at least half of them) who want a General Election.
Is it only me, or do other people find it hard to control themselves when Harman does that nodding dog thing?
Those who listen carefully will note that Brown made a common Labour error in numbers. He described expenditure for the next few years and twice described it in millions, not billions, Blair had the same problem.
He is unable to evade Cameron's accusation that his proposed reform of the voting system is solely to attempt to protect some share of the seats for Labour.
We also note that he is anticipating the Kelly Inquiry which has now become redundant.
Anne Diamond lovely,ey? Hopefully she's now more humble than she was when she was Queen of the Sofa at TV-am. I worked there then, and lovely she wasn't!
Cameron won, he used his questions well to get the verbal punches in. Gordon was ready for him though, and he had his 'come on then' speech prepared for later on after a well-placed plant triggered it off.
Too bad Gord was droned out by ridicule and Brown's old mate the speaker, going for his knighthood there I see, had to intervene to help Brown's shaken voice get a word in.
Clegg was barely a squeak this week. The election results must have got to him.
Cameron was very weak today. He hasn't gone anywhere near unemployment in ages and he's starting to look like a shallow opportunist. He seems to forget we're in a recession, which is perfectly understandable when you can't even remember how many houses you have. As the banking crisis showed, he's poor on policy. Good on soundbites and character attacks, yes. But elsewhere he's floundering. Brown looked stronger and more assured than he has in a long time.
i thought brown, cameron and clegg all looked tired, bored and out of ideas this week.
i was thinking on the packed-because-of-the-tube-strike bus this morning that people (in london anyway) care much more at the moment about their commute to and from work than they do about british politics - and today's pmqs won't have done much to change that will it?
neither will this lacklustre debate on electoral reform...
Cameron effective but not particularly inspiring. Brown issuing lying bollox as usual, 'investing' (i.e. spending our cash) with no mention of where the money's coming from, completed on auto-pilot with tractor stats. No ability to answer questions. Constant garbage about what Tories would or would not do. Clegg asked decent question - but badly.
On balance Cameron, Brown and Clegg - in that order.
Still, there are a few more PMQs before the election is called. I'll be interested in the speeches in the Dissolution debate which may be more entertaining.
Cameron loses marks for saying "the choice at the next election is not between Labour investment and Tory cuts....." He should never use those weasel words "Labour investment" but always refer to "Labour tax and spend" - i.e. reveal the truth and in passing use words the electorate will hear and latch on to.
I'm also suprised that he didn't throw back at Brown's the fact that the NHS is almost bankrupt as a result of Labour's "investment".
Cameron was full of good fighting talk, but he needs to stop missing these open goals. The public may find Brown about as appealing as cold vomit, but Labour can be nailed on policy now and that's what the Tories should be doing.
WV: "homical" - I'm sure that should be a word for something, perhaps being very funny in a homosexual kind of way...
Amazed Dave didn't go on the attack about no Referendum on the Lisbon Treaty (Constitution) and yet Broon happy to let us have one on new voting system.
Brown made good use of planted questions and backbencher questions to hammer away at the "Tory Spending Cuts versus Labour Spending" message. I suspect that this message will translate well to some of the general public.
Otherwise - Brown dropped a bollock by not denying outright that he would not tinker with electoral rules before the General Election.
Cameron was good - but I don't think the man in the street is that interested in Electoral details and reform. I may be wrong!
Huge win for Cameron. Brown repeatedly lied (I know! What a surprise!). Clegg made a good point about how the funding for local government housing is organized.
Poor PMQs. Clegg struggled - his preamble far too long. Cameron didn't seem passionate enough about his own questions. Brown sounds more and more like a communist Romanian newsreader - tractors, tractors, tractors!
Maybe Cameron would have been better not asking any questions at all to illustrate what a waste of time it is listening to Brown.
Brown on the ropes and talking himself into trouble, Cameron on his toes and making Gordon Squirm, Clegg had a reasonable performance. The first 'old-school' PMQ's we've had in ages.
My scores
Brown 3 Cameron 8 Clegg 6
The thing that summed it up was the glum looks from the cabinet surrounding Brown. And he had deliberately lied on spending again. Now that cuts are on the agenda hopefully we can have it out in the open. Labour are going to cut spending, it's just that Tories want to reduce it slightly further and also want to reform the services so people get better value for money too. I'm sure the public wouldn't actually be opposed to this, the only other alternative would be to increase taxes further and even Labour are not that dumb!
No wories. Gordon is going to sort the country out. Firstly, electoral reform, presumably so Labour can never be removed from office, then they are going to balance the budget without cutting spending or raising taxes.
"He failed to land one blow on the PM,which under the circumstances is quite incredible."
That's a bit silly, I think. It's difficult to "land blows" on a man who is totally immersed in self-delusion.
Cameron once again exposed brown for what he is - a mendacious smear of Marxist excrement.
One thing - the chamber was more than half empty when Brown delivered his "big" speech on reform. That tells everyone what they need to know. Nobody really gives a toss what Brown says or thinks.
Brown yet again went unchallenged on the blatant twisting of the facts.
Brown regularly lies and falsifies these figures or merely, makes them up. Nobody ever seems to challenge these. For example; "We are lifting children out of poverty" a phrase he regularly uses, and today was no exception. According to official figures, Labour has failed in its keystone policy of abolishing child poverty and the facts are that they have not made a dent in it. In 2002 Brown boasted that Labour had lifted 1.2 million children out of poverty (what this means I really do not know) but the BBC were reporting the figure was nearer half a million. So, a doubling of the actual figure. More than doubling. In March, 2007, The Independent reported
"Child poverty has increased for the first time in six years, prompting fears that ministers will miss their target of halving the number of children living in poverty by 2010. The statistics are a huge setback for Labour and were described by charity Barnados as "a moral disgrace"
And in May this year the same paper declared,
"The full scale of Labour's failure to help the poorest in Britain was laid bare yesterday with revelations that hundreds of thousands of people were being plunged into deprivation even before the recession hit, and that the Government had been unable to make any impression on the numbers of children and pensioners in poverty." (The Independent)
This was the second consecutive week that Brown cited "lifting children out of poverty" - clearly he is in love with the idea. A pity that the truth is that he has failed in this central plank of Labour policy.
And finally, on changing the rules in order to get a better result at the next election. They wouldn't do that, would they?
Am I the only one starting to get a very queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach, that Brown, hanging on for another year, may well tempt back the labour vote and ....
It can't be that difficult, given that Labour have doubled Govt spending (from c£350bn - 1997 to c£700bn - 2009f) to find £70bn of cuts. If had just increased in line with inflation then it would now be c£500bn.
They have created 600,000 new pulic sector jobs with little or no increase in performance at the point the public receives the service. In some cases its gone backwards.
So if the public sector functioned in 1997 with 600,000 fewer employees then sack them all.
600,000 people at £30k per annum employment cost is £18bn, if the average employment cost is £40k then the saving is £24bn.
Scrap the NHS IT system - £10bn
Administer benefits and tax credits properly - £4bn
ID cards - £4bn
All of that adds up to somewhere between £36bn and £42bn and thats from a quick post on a blog.
Now I know its a bit simplistic to say sack everyone in one of the 600,000 additional jobs, but you get the point.
The public sector is bloated and inefficient.
Its all about where you cut and the Conservatives are letting Labour get away with peddling the lie that reduced spending equals reduced services.
The Conservatives have to start coming out with the detail.
Anne Diamond lovely?She spouted alot of nonsense of cot deaths and even more over weight loss.Brown is cluthing at straws if he thinks the public will not see that he is desparate for PR to stop his party being slaughtered at the polls.The speaker was a prat as usual and Nick Clegg made no impact.
Brown like a depressive who has lost the black dog.
He accused Cameron of wanting 10% cuts - when he knows there are lots of cuts coming. We all know they are coming so he came across as either a liar or a man who doesn't care about the economy.
Cameron was quite simply Brown baiting.
I think Brown is coming across a more and more bonkers month by month.
Brown like a depressive who has lost the black dog.
He accused Cameron of wanting 10% cuts - when he knows there are lots of cuts coming. We all know they are coming so he came across as either a liar or a man who doesn't care about the economy.
Cameron was quite simply Brown baiting.
I think Brown is coming across a more and more bonkers month by month.
I hope that the next Speaker, whoever it may be, will stop Brown from spouting his version of what the Conservatives will do, and tell him to answer the question that was asked. Can you imagine Brown's face when he realised that his prepared script has been rendered useless? I am not holding my breath however.
Very poor. it is time Dave went out and bought himself some balls. And get brown on edge where he losses his temper, he almost did it once. browns stale repeating himself, it is getting so boring, and predictable.
I have never been so angry at Gordon Brown’s repeated lying as I was today. His continued manipulation of what Lansley had said this morning was disgraceful.
Lansley was making predicitions about public spending cuts that a Tory government would have to make under Brown’s own projected figures from the budget. His basic point was that if the Tories ring fenced spending on Schools, the NHS and International Development (increasing them by about 3% in real terms) then, using Labour’s figures, this would mean a 10% decrease across all other departments. Brown used this to heavily imply that the Tories would cut spending on schools and the NHS where Labour would increase ‘investment.’
This was an outright LIE. The only reason the Conservatives would be cutting spending elsewhere is because they would be increasing spending in these areas by more than Labour have planned!
Brown’s response when Cameron challenged him on this point was equally misleading; Brown pointed to the fact that there would be real terms increases in overall expenditure. But the only reason why there are real terms increases is because unemployment benefit will have to go up during the recession and because interest payments are going to increase by a massive 8%! This accounts for the entire proposed increase in spending.
As there will also be a huge fall in revenue the rest will have to be made up for by cuts, this means that under Labour there will be 7% cuts to all public services. As the Tories are ring fencing Education, NHS and International Development Spending, the cuts must be larger elsewhere hence the 10% figure.
A truly shameless performance by totally discredited PM.
Brown and Labour are desperate for anything to damage the Tories, and distorting facts and figures is second nature to Gordon Brown.
Trouble is, a lot of the effect will depend upon how it is reported by the BBC.
"Tory cuts" was used - very effectively - by Blair, for over 10 long yrs. Every PMQs he would get in that phrase at least once - and the public swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.
Now Brown has some ammunition - however warped it is - ammunition nonetheless.
It saddens me that the Tories cannot put an argument forward as to why cuts are desirable - even necessary - because they are terrified of the electoral consequence.
Cameron was right when he said Brown has nothing to lose - so he will say and promise anything to stay in power.
The Tories HAVE to counter this move by Brown very quickly. Poll leads can disappear very quickly - just ask Labour.
Squiffy said... A clear win by DC. I just wish he had a stronger answer for the 10% cuts jibe.
DC should say, "yes, of course we will have to make cuts" and then ask Brown to explain how he expects to be able to simultaneously increase spending and reduce debt.
I think people are intelligent enough to realise that tough fiscal measures are essential and a bit of honesty from a politician would make a welcome change.
And changing the subject, what an abject looking crew Brown had on his front bench today. They all looked shagged-out and useless. He even had the orange crook sitting next to him. Good grief!
However much as I hate to say this I thought he did well - for him.
DC was genuinely trying to get info out of Brown about his scorched earth constitutional plans.
DC also needs to frame Brown boats about borrowing more and more money to spend on consumption better ( he calls it investing ).
Its time for a clear message on the governments financial crisis. DC's line should be - well talk future spending when you own up to the current financial crisis in govt.
The Constitutional stuff is Gordo's plans to fill the newspapers for 6 months and wrong foot the Tories, whilst lining up the most desperate of people the Lib Dems for a quick alliance behind the bike shed if its a hung parliament after then next GE.
Perhaps Cameron needs to ask Thatcher`s voice coach for some tips in how to project and lower his voice. His reedy baritone is ineffectual and gets annoying at times.......Brown just moos on and on and Cameron`s points, though valid , don`t carry conviction because of his poor delivery.
When all of the facts are laid bare, and the BBC report the truth - ie Labour's planned spending cuts - the public will see straight through Brown's deep cynicism.
Like his proposed electoral reform debate, as he puts it.
Don't panic, Conservative supporters. Labour are finished, no matter what lies they try to sell to the public.
Brown lied and lied avoiding all questions. Cameron seemed confident but found it difficult to nail the ditherer. Clegg asked worthy question receiving more lies.
We can see Brown's election strategy lies, lies and more lies.
Gordon Brown and his toadying sound bite spurting underlings are a collective insult to the intelligence of the country. His much vaunted Presbyterian conscience doesn't prevent him lying at every PMQ's. The country is broke. The only way to get out of the mess is to tighten belts and take some hard medicine. To suggest otherwise is infantile. Time for DC to give it to the country straight. The electorate is ready for the bad news because most of us know it already. As ever Brown and his worthless aparatchiks rant on about 'investment'. They haven't a clue what the word means. We do though. In Labour la la land investment equals tax and spend. Let's have an election now!
Time after time Labour churns out numbers. And there is never a firm response from DC. At some point DC is going to have to make a stand. He is going to have to find a way to pin Brown down on detail. There are an awful lot of voters out there who care for nothing more than which government is going to give them the biggest cheque. It has to be clearly shown to them that government coffers are empty and unless the spending habits of this lamentable and egotistical PM are curtailed, the consequences for our children do not bear thinking about. Alas, I don't have a clue as to how to translate the complexities of government finances into a story that the majority of voters can comprehend. And that, I suspect, is DC's biggest problem as well.
What is the point of Prime Ministers Questions when the Prime Minister doesn't answer the questions. The speaker is there to ensure fair play and see that every member has his due. A less partisan speaker might compel the respondent to actually answer the question.
Sorry but the people that vote Labour don't care about debt or tax levels. Most of them are Scottish or northerners who claim benefits. Until benefits get cut they don't care if the rest of us are taxed to the hilt.
On the reform of voting, McSnot knows that when the Tories will the next election the jocks may well vote for independence (we can only hope they do) meaning that Labour will lose that block vote of 50 seats, putting them as a minority party confined to the north west north east and parts of London.
Then will be out of of power for 40 years at least.
Cameron was weak today. Why didn't he go on about Post office privatisation? Why didn't he go on about unemployment? Why no mention of the mess in Afghanistan?
Martin - agree that the north will vote Labour as long as more than 50% of voters work for state or council or are on benefits of one kind or another, but aren't there plenty of Labour client states in London, too?
1. when The Daily Politics gal read out a few questions from viewers they all said that GB's line on cuts was a lie/distorsion/untruth... so the "labour spend vs tory cuts" line does not seemd to be getting any traction. And given the Beeb's built in bias you know that if there had been a pro-Brown email there they would have used it!
2. PMQs has become a joke where GB never answers a question unless it's a friendly plant to allow him to roll out his misleading stats.
DC clear winner but they have to smash this 10% bullshit once an for all otherwise it will fester even though it is wrong.
Unless it is possible to compell him to answer a straight question with a straight, and above all accurate, answer, then nailing Brown is very hard. It is why Mr Cameron often cannot give the "knockout blow". Brown appears to have a certain number of lines that he uses as answers, often based on what he says the Tories would do. Perhaps if he wants to clean up politics, then he could add that to the constitutional reform agenda.
Have to cut - priorities to pay for like Gerald Kaufman's £220 crystal glass grapefruit bowl. Excuse - he has "self diagnosed obsessive compulsive disease". His OCD requires him to eat half a grapefruit every morning and it must come from such a bowl.
I wonder if one of the constitutional reforms will be to turn PMQs into Opposition Leader's questions? Brown certainly uses them that way at present. He didn't actually answer one question himself, just asked them, and the useless Speaker aids and abets him in that tactic.
Unless I missheard, Brown also talked about increasing Welsh devolutionary powers, and the Calman review of Scottish devolution, but England wasn't mentioned once - just "cities and regions". Doesn't this Scottish PM understand that the English don't want anything to do with that; just the back of him and his Scottish mafia sticking their noses into English domestic affairs and public services? England is a nation, not a collection of European-inspired regions!!
Think "Wapping Boy" 12.47pm got it right. DC has so many goals to score that he fails to convert the easy ones.Surely there must be somebody in the shaddow cabinet that keeps in the touch with the real world/voters - if we can see the failings of NewLiebour surely there must be a front bench spokesperson that can take Labour to task. Have me doubts though!!
Forget about PMQs. Thec common man and woman in the street who are voters do not bother about PMQs. PMQs are the throwback from the age when there was wireless, and people listened to what was asked and pread papers. There was no 24/7 life then.
Cameron and his team should work out their policies,get proper people in at the front bench and more than anything should be visible to the media-TV. Come Summer, the Shadow cabinet should take less holidays and be available to ridicule Brown in public on the TV. That is the only way to get rid of the scoundrels when the election is called. Forget the PMQs Not many voters are bothered.
Anonymous 3.38: Exactly. And can a party credibly claim to be Conservative when it plans to do this, but refuses to ring fence (and therefore will almost certainly cut) finance for our already underfunded and undersize defence forces?
Cameron is truly the heir to Blair. Not a reason to vote for him for those of us who fervently hope the latter will have no political issue.
Lansley's 10% comment was maladroit leaving Cameron to do a bit of fancy footwork. Brown missed the open goal by parrotting 'Tory cuts' and 'sacking nurses', which everyone here and on the Daily Politics immediately saw through as lies.
Cameron wasn't trying to land a KO today. His line - quite effective- was to draw any punch from the constitutional statement and lay down some markers if Brown tries to railroad electoral change.
Clegg looked shattered.
Cameron - 6 - workmanlike Brown - 5 - Norwegian parrot Clegg - 2 - Needs some Prozac
Strange thing happening. Brown looks de-mob happy - in other words, he knows it doesn't matter that much whether he stays or goes - or really what he says. Nice plum job when he leaves Parliament anyway.
Cameron is in an entirely different position - he is pitching himself to become PM - Brown isn't. To that effect, Cameron has to think a lot more about what he says, because Brown knows he and Labour are finished after the next GE.
Don't be too harsh on Cameron's performance today - he has played a blinder over the last few months, in utter contrast to Brown.
Cameron has the makings of a great PM - if he believes in himself and his ideas.
IMO Cameron should stop putting the party first and start putting the country first. Stop pulling his punches and finish Brown off.
We're currently in so much debt our Grandchildren will be paying it off. If he keeps spunking money up the wall at the same rate for the next year, Gordon will leave the next how many generations in debt?
If Dave isn't careful the country will be finished by the time he becomes PM. If he has to put up taxes too much then the productive part of the economy is likely to just leave...
GB now has his sound bite, his reply to everything. Basically any Tory who thought that this was going to be easy will now have to think again. The work starts now, everyday, day after day. Setting the agenda, making the points unlike today where we see rushed out PDF's of spending plans because a shadow minister got a bit keen and spoke outside of his remit!!
In their joint condemnation of the BNP (condemnation I agree with) neither party had the courage to mention the elephant in the room but instead concentrated on the other sideshows such as jobs etc. Until the policy of open-door immigration is debated by the mainstream parties the likes of the BNP will grow and grow.
I think you should all find some thing much more constructive to do with your time rather than watch PMQ's. It's pure theatre and in any case now Brown is so weakend and demeaned and every body after last weeks' press conference, knows he is an habitual liar and a bully. He can say absolutely anything, but who believes him now any way? Completely discredited.So just why do you bother? Brown is just an habitual liar, just like all his team, saying the same thing from the script they have all been e-mailed. Emperors new clothes! In any case his policies are worked out accordinbg to how much they can damage the tories. We all know this. Bring back Michael Foot!
The Tories' 10% cut isn't even a cut, it's just a different allocation of the pie that Labour intends to share out. Brown is a demonstrable LIAR!
What I find really upsetting is the fact that the tories intend to piss the same amount against the wall as the socialists. Bollocks to that, let's have some real, to-the-bone cuts in public expenditure.
I'm getting increasingly angry with Cameron. He looks more and more like a shallow opportunist and he cannot seem to nail Brown. Remember how Blair used to give Major a pasting in the dog days of the last Tory government - that's what Cameron should be doing. Come on, Dave, get a grip!
I agree with the Honourable Commenter 'Evil Clanger' @ 5:39
Labour's policy is for an 'across the board' cut of 7% (including the NHS). (This is derived from the figures given by Brown at PMQs) The Conservatives have pledged to ringfence the NHS budget, therefore if they were to make the same total cut to public expenditure as Labour is planning they would have to cut the non-NHS budgets by 10%.
'Blair used to give Major a pasting in the dog days of the last Tory government - that's what Cameron should be doing'
The voters (ably assisted by David Cameron) gave Labour a MAJOR pasting last week: They came 3rd in the Local Elections and the European Election. I was there! I helped! :D
Very true. The voters seemed less keen to positively support the Conservatives though. Surely they ought to be getting well over 40% of the vote given the state of the government? I don't think Cameron is up to scratch.
Bullingdon Dave is a shallow salesman - no more, no less. The only reason he wants a General Election now is for his own personal self-interest. He must take us all for fools with his guff about the public interest. What a cunt.
Watched but didnt see the PM, saw and heard Gordon Brown avoiding questions as usual, throwing his 'Tory Cuts' phrase in, (God knows where the money is going to come from..maybe we can print some more), but all in all the new PM didnt show...don think he is allowed to.
Good news is we are almost rid of McBruin..bad news is we have The Lord of Mordor instead..so watch guys, destroy your rings..he is watching you.
I hope that David Cameron is serious about change and people power. If he is - he will support a referendum into electoral reform. We, the people, should decide how we want our MPs elected not the turkeys in the House of Commons who won't vote for Xmas.
'The most electorally successful' since the 19th century? I haven't laughed so much in ages! You really are a card. I think a certain Lady T might dispute that one, even in her dribbling senility.
'Surely they ought to be getting well over 40% of the vote given the state of the government?'
Well, he won both Elections handsomely. He has won overall every set of local elections since becoming leader. He won the Euro elections with a 12% lead over Labour, even though many Conservative voters voted UKIP. Brown has always badly lost head to head elections against Cameron. Of those contested, Labour have 178 County Councillors, The Conservatives have 1531 County Councillors. Of the three main parties the Conservatives were the only one with a net increase in the number of Councillors. The Conservatives have the Councils, Labour need counselling. Cameron is a very good Party Leader. In many ways he is the most electorally successful Conservative leader since the 19th Century. Brown has destroyed the Labour party in Local Government.
Conand - Cameron is not a 'brilliant leader' by any stretch of the imagination. He is doing OK but don't forget he's in just about the most favourable political conditions an opposition leader could wish for - crap government, crap PM, dire economy. How come he can only get 28% of a very low turnout to support his party?
And yes, think where the Conservatives were and where they are now. Think where Labour were and where they are now. Brown is a crap leader and a pathetic, spineless, lying, bully.
Oh good, I'm glad I cheered you up. Reality is funny when you see it. The socialist blinkers have been pulled from our eyes. By the way, what is this? A Liebore flashmob?
I don't deny Brown is a pathetic and utterly crap leader. In fact, that's my point. Why can't Cameron do better? Just because things have improved since the Quiet Man was working his political 'magic' doesn't mean the Bullingdon boys are doing well.
"even though many Conservative voters voted UKIP."
If he was anything of a leader that just would not have happened.
I listened to Hague ripping the Labour lot apart... to think that he was judged to be a poor leader... and Dave judged to be good! as they say, you couldn't make it up.
Cameron has, very cleverly, been packing his punches recently, but now that he has acheived his goal of keeping Brown there until the next Election, he can demolish him - and he will!
It's clear that Brown's war cry from now on to the election is "Expect Tory Cuts".
The IFS and Fraser Nelson have already exposed the hidden 7% cut across the board cuts contained in Darling's Budget.
We also know that the 10% cut mooted on radio this morning by the Tory spokesman amounted to the same gross total in cuts by New Labour as Darling tried to hide, and was simply the re-distributed increased effect on everything else because the Tories are going to exclude Health spending from cuts as opposed to darling whose budget made it clear that New Labour are cutting health spending as well.
So why the hell did Cameron not point all of this out in his riposte to Brown?????????????????????
If Cameron continues to mess up on fundamental things like this then Brown will get away time and time again with his lies and deceptions at PMQ's.
I just don't think a millionaire Old Etonian can ever have enough fire in the belly for a proper fight. Brown, on the other hand, would rather take us all down with him than give up the keys to No 10...
Now that Brown is certain to stay as PM, Cameron can take him to pieces week after week until he is finally finished off by the electorate next May 6th.
GORDON did well until he mentioned the words, 'do nothing Tories.' Here's a challenge to GORDON. How log can he last a PMQs without saying those two or three words?
Wow Stephanie Flanders actually reported the 10% Cuts story correctly. A bit late in the day...but then that was deliberate. BBC in full changing the narrative 'Save Gordon!' mode.
I think it is a load of mince an insult to both democracy and peoples' intelligence. The truth of the matter is that no proper debates take place in Parliament.
Since Labour came to power their contempt for the whole tiresome procedure of being "held to account" has been answered by the use of; the guillotine, the three line whip and the Labour domination of every select committee
Discussion and debate, including the pointless PMQs are reduced to farce. The end result is a stream of bad laws trundling of the Westminster conveyor and any "tidy-ups" the Lords try valiantly to do are met with cries of derision from Labour about this unelected assembly sabotaging their inept laws. Doesn't stop Labour from piling more and more of their folks into the Lords though, Kinnock and Sugar the latest.
The end result is poor Government and MPs with nothing much else to do, other than using all their spare time to fill in ever more "creative" expense claims.
Speaker Martin does not shut up the rabble when Clegg speaks so he simply cannot get his message across amongst the hum of conversation that continues around him (Labour benches?).
So Clegg needs to work out how to ask BIG questions at every session so that the whole Commons has his attention.
I think Cameron should employ some business presentation specialists to help him - he is simply not scoring heavyweight hits at PMQ's against an opponent who is on his last legs.There should be some knock-out blows but they don't seem to have the skill to plot their way around the 30 minutes session.
138 comments:
CallMeDave doing much better this week; Gordon's lines sounding increasingly tired, as he trots them out again and again...
Another gaffe from the Speaker. Perhaps he thought Cameron had asked all six questions with his first one.
You'd have to waterboard Brown to get a straight answer out of him
Interesting what Gordon said on reform. Not really sure what he's going to propose now.
Brown is like a stuck record, endlessly repeating one tired line after another, and none answering any question.
Gordon is very tired. He is reading scripts.
But I must say I am getting tired of the spending cuts argument against Tories.
Yes, the country is in a mess. The economy is in tatters and being crushed by a massive deficit, we have to repay. We cant sustain this level of debt.
So yes, spending cuts, by any party are necessary. We have to seize this issue and ask what Labour propose to do to repay debt. You cannot spend more to repay debt.
David Cameron needs to call this issue simply like Mrs Thatcher did so the public understand. A family cannot spend what it cant afford, without huge debt and interest issues. Spend too much and your house will be taken back. Hence families have to reduce their spending and make cuts in their lives. This could be turned into an election winning issue if played right.
Brown the bankrupter, spending tax payers money, leaving our future generations in debt.
You know it should be an ofense to misslead the commons.
A statement from the dispatch box, should be under the same effect as a statement in court.
Why nothing on Shahid Malik?
More tractor stats from Gordon, nothing even resembling actions, just waffle.
added to that the speaker should be able to compel the minister to answer the question
Score.
Gordon... 6 -- quite good for him
Cameron.. 5 -- could have done better
Clegg.. 2 -- no big impact.
Whatever score you use, this was a better week for Brown than last week.
Brown makes my blood boil! He will not answer a question and instead addresses questions to DC. What with of Prime Minister's Questions doesn't he get?
Cameron trounces the Jock as usual, Broon blustering, not answering ANY questions whatsoever, and saying 'this country' and 'our country' a lot in order to avoid saying the word "England" because hes an anti-English unelected Scotch Dictator with no say over his own country, only England.
He MUST NOT be allowed to rig the electoral system!!!!.
DC could have made more of the point that Brown made when he said from their experience on the doorstep electoral reform was an issue that the public were interested.
We all know that is garbage, but if the Government is prepared to listen to a small number of people on the issue of electoral reform why won't they listen to the members of the public (at least half of them) who want a General Election.
Is it only me, or do other people find it hard to control themselves when Harman does that nodding dog thing?
Brown 4
Cameron 5 (just)
Clegg 2
When will the fact that Gordon Brown lies almost every PMQ and in every interview become a major charge against him?
He lied to the House again today. Remember the massive intake of breath during the re-shuffle press conference?
He's so used to it it becomes more and more blatant. It must become a major weapon to use against him in the media.
Clean up Politics? Start with Brown.
Those who listen carefully will note that Brown made a common Labour error in numbers. He described expenditure for the next few years and twice described it in millions, not billions, Blair had the same problem.
He is unable to evade Cameron's accusation that his proposed reform of the voting system is solely to attempt to protect some share of the seats for Labour.
We also note that he is anticipating the Kelly Inquiry which has now become redundant.
Anne Diamond lovely,ey? Hopefully she's now more humble than she was when she was Queen of the Sofa at TV-am. I worked there then, and lovely she wasn't!
Cameron a very confident 7
Brown a smiley 6
Clegg got bored
Brown's problem is that he looks like a muppet now, once you have the tag of loser it is almost impossible to shake off.
Cameron was smart, shiney, cheeky, assertive and confident and did very well.
The missing link is to say spending is fine, but given the waste it is just more debt for future generations to pay off.
Jam today, who gives f*** about tomorrow is what Brown is saying,
Brown 7
Cameron 2
Clegg 2
Cameron won, he used his questions well to get the verbal punches in. Gordon was ready for him though, and he had his 'come on then' speech prepared for later on after a well-placed plant triggered it off.
Too bad Gord was droned out by ridicule and Brown's old mate the speaker, going for his knighthood there I see, had to intervene to help Brown's shaken voice get a word in.
Clegg was barely a squeak this week. The election results must have got to him.
Same old drama, same old rhetoric.
Cameron was very weak today. He hasn't gone anywhere near unemployment in ages and he's starting to look like a shallow opportunist. He seems to forget we're in a recession, which is perfectly understandable when you can't even remember how many houses you have. As the banking crisis showed, he's poor on policy. Good on soundbites and character attacks, yes. But elsewhere he's floundering. Brown looked stronger and more assured than he has in a long time.
Clegg was an irrelevance
i thought brown, cameron and clegg all looked tired, bored and out of ideas this week.
i was thinking on the packed-because-of-the-tube-strike bus this morning that people (in london anyway) care much more at the moment about their commute to and from work than they do about british politics - and today's pmqs won't have done much to change that will it?
neither will this lacklustre debate on electoral reform...
Cameron effective but not particularly inspiring. Brown issuing lying bollox as usual, 'investing' (i.e. spending our cash) with no mention of where the money's coming from, completed on auto-pilot with tractor stats. No ability to answer questions. Constant garbage about what Tories would or would not do. Clegg asked decent question - but badly.
On balance Cameron, Brown and Clegg - in that order.
Still, there are a few more PMQs before the election is called. I'll be interested in the speeches in the Dissolution debate which may be more entertaining.
Brown was as crap as always.
However, many will only remember the message set up by Kauffman and repeated to the DC 6th question.
"Tories to cut NHS - Labour to increase spending"
It does not matter that this is a lie.
The man with the moral compass has decided it is a lie that many can be persuaded to believe - and he may be right.
Why is it that so many who boast of their moral scruples are the most duplicitous, unscrupulous bastards around?
Cameron loses marks for saying "the choice at the next election is not between Labour investment and Tory cuts....." He should never use those weasel words "Labour investment" but always refer to "Labour tax and spend" - i.e. reveal the truth and in passing use words the electorate will hear and latch on to.
I'm also suprised that he didn't throw back at Brown's the fact that the NHS is almost bankrupt as a result of Labour's "investment".
Cameron was full of good fighting talk, but he needs to stop missing these open goals. The public may find Brown about as appealing as cold vomit, but Labour can be nailed on policy now and that's what the Tories should be doing.
WV: "homical" - I'm sure that should be a word for something, perhaps being very funny in a homosexual kind of way...
A clear win by DC. I just wish he had a stronger answer for the 10% cuts jibe.
Amazed Dave didn't go on the attack about no Referendum on the Lisbon Treaty (Constitution) and yet Broon happy to let us have one on new voting system.
By pure default, I give brown a resounding zero every week, because he spins the same tired Marxist rhetoric every week.
Cameron is more complicated to score. He can sometimes be brilliant, sometimes good, sometimes average - because he's more human than Brown.
Clegg is back to where he was before the expenses scandal - a nobody.
Brown - 0
Cameron - 6
Clegg - 1
I scored it Cameron 7, Brown 5 and Clegg 3.
Brown made good use of planted questions and backbencher questions to hammer away at the "Tory Spending Cuts versus Labour Spending" message. I suspect that this message will translate well to some of the general public.
Otherwise - Brown dropped a bollock by not denying outright that he would not tinker with electoral rules before the General Election.
Cameron was good - but I don't think the man in the street is that interested in Electoral details and reform. I may be wrong!
Clegg was well below parr.
Will you be telling her how you think the BNP are really just Labour people in disguise?
Or would you avoid that, because you might worry she might think you are mildly deranged?
when brown stands there reading stat after stat---you just turn off
at least blair kept it sweet an short--too the point even if he economical with the truth.
his new comittees being set up will make public angry---TALK AND WASTE using up VALUBLE TIME
Huge win for Cameron. Brown repeatedly lied (I know! What a surprise!). Clegg made a good point about how the funding for local government housing is organized.
Poor PMQs. Clegg struggled - his preamble far too long. Cameron didn't seem passionate enough about his own questions. Brown sounds more and more like a communist Romanian newsreader - tractors, tractors, tractors!
Maybe Cameron would have been better not asking any questions at all to illustrate what a waste of time it is listening to Brown.
And thus is normal service resumed.
Labour will win the general election.
Brown on the ropes and talking himself into trouble, Cameron on his toes and making Gordon Squirm, Clegg had a reasonable performance. The first 'old-school' PMQ's we've had in ages.
My scores
Brown 3
Cameron 8
Clegg 6
The thing that summed it up was the glum looks from the cabinet surrounding Brown. And he had deliberately lied on spending again. Now that cuts are on the agenda hopefully we can have it out in the open. Labour are going to cut spending, it's just that Tories want to reduce it slightly further and also want to reform the services so people get better value for money too. I'm sure the public wouldn't actually be opposed to this, the only other alternative would be to increase taxes further and even Labour are not that dumb!
PMQ's with liblabcon all going through the motions.
I thought it was a terrible performance from Cameron considering the ammunition he had from the last week.
He failed to land one blow on the PM,which under the circumstances is quite incredible.
Cameron gave (as always) the impression of a man full of zeal and vitality yet came across as a curiously empty vessel.
To sum up his performance I would say "coasting".
I would be interested to see how Redwood would of dealt with that PMQ's.
No wories. Gordon is going to sort the country out. Firstly, electoral reform, presumably so Labour can never be removed from office, then they are going to balance the budget without cutting spending or raising taxes.
Nice country we once had.
Brown only answers planted questions. Cameron had just the right tone.
The Speaker, partisan as ever, admonished the Tories for heckling when Brown was speaking but didn't extend the same courtesy to Clegg and Cameron.
PMQs is a farce.
"He failed to land one blow on the PM,which under the circumstances is quite incredible."
That's a bit silly, I think. It's difficult to "land blows" on a man who is totally immersed in self-delusion.
Cameron once again exposed brown for what he is - a mendacious smear of Marxist excrement.
One thing - the chamber was more than half empty when Brown delivered his "big" speech on reform. That tells everyone what they need to know. Nobody really gives a toss what Brown says or thinks.
PMQ's are a waste of time.
The Speaker should have the authority to ask for a question to be answered, or PMQ's should be done away with.
If the Prime Minister won't answer questions what is the point?
Brown yet again went unchallenged on the blatant twisting of the facts.
Brown regularly lies and falsifies these figures or merely, makes them up. Nobody ever seems to challenge these. For example; "We are lifting children out of poverty" a phrase he regularly uses, and today was no exception. According to official figures, Labour has failed in its keystone policy of abolishing child poverty and the facts are that they have not made a dent in it. In 2002 Brown boasted that Labour had lifted 1.2 million children out of poverty (what this means I really do not know) but the BBC were reporting the figure was nearer half a million. So, a doubling of the actual figure. More than doubling. In March, 2007, The Independent reported
"Child poverty has increased for the first time in six years, prompting fears that ministers will miss their target of halving the number of children living in poverty by 2010. The statistics are a huge setback for Labour and were described by charity Barnados as "a moral disgrace"
And in May this year the same paper declared,
"The full scale of Labour's failure to help the poorest in Britain was laid bare yesterday with revelations that hundreds of thousands of people were being plunged into deprivation even before the recession hit, and that the Government had been unable to make any impression on the numbers of children and pensioners in poverty." (The Independent)
This was the second consecutive week that Brown cited "lifting children out of poverty" - clearly he is in love with the idea. A pity that the truth is that he has failed in this central plank of Labour policy.
And finally, on changing the rules in order to get a better result at the next election. They wouldn't do that, would they?
Am I the only one starting to get a very queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach, that Brown, hanging on for another year, may well tempt back the labour vote and ....
I can't even finish, I feel sick...
In response to Squiffy (12.49),
So do I.
It can't be that difficult, given that Labour have doubled Govt spending (from c£350bn - 1997 to c£700bn - 2009f) to find £70bn of cuts. If had just increased in line with inflation then it would now be c£500bn.
They have created 600,000 new pulic sector jobs with little or no increase in performance at the point the public receives the service. In some cases its gone backwards.
So if the public sector functioned in 1997 with 600,000 fewer employees then sack them all.
600,000 people at £30k per annum employment cost is £18bn, if the average employment cost is £40k then the saving is £24bn.
Scrap the NHS IT system - £10bn
Administer benefits and tax credits properly - £4bn
ID cards - £4bn
All of that adds up to somewhere between £36bn and £42bn and thats from a quick post on a blog.
Now I know its a bit simplistic to say sack everyone in one of the 600,000 additional jobs, but you get the point.
The public sector is bloated and inefficient.
Its all about where you cut and the Conservatives are letting Labour get away with peddling the lie that reduced spending equals reduced services.
The Conservatives have to start coming out with the detail.
Anne Diamond lovely?She spouted alot of nonsense of cot deaths and even more over weight loss.Brown is cluthing at straws if he thinks the public will not see that he is desparate for PR to stop his party being slaughtered at the polls.The speaker was a prat as usual and Nick Clegg made no impact.
Brown like a depressive who has lost the black dog.
He accused Cameron of wanting 10% cuts - when he knows there are lots of cuts coming. We all know they are coming so he came across as either a liar or a man who doesn't care about the economy.
Cameron was quite simply Brown baiting.
I think Brown is coming across a more and more bonkers month by month.
Brown like a depressive who has lost the black dog.
He accused Cameron of wanting 10% cuts - when he knows there are lots of cuts coming. We all know they are coming so he came across as either a liar or a man who doesn't care about the economy.
Cameron was quite simply Brown baiting.
I think Brown is coming across a more and more bonkers month by month.
I hope that the next Speaker, whoever it may be, will stop Brown from spouting his version of what the Conservatives will do, and tell him to answer the question that was asked. Can you imagine Brown's face when he realised that his prepared script has been rendered useless? I am not holding my breath however.
Very poor.
it is time Dave went out and bought himself some balls.
And get brown on edge where he losses his temper, he almost did it once. browns stale repeating himself, it is getting so boring, and predictable.
I have never been so angry at Gordon Brown’s repeated lying as I was today. His continued manipulation of what Lansley had said this morning was disgraceful.
Lansley was making predicitions about public spending cuts that a Tory government would have to make under Brown’s own projected figures from the budget. His basic point was that if the Tories ring fenced spending on Schools, the NHS and International Development (increasing them by about 3% in real terms) then, using Labour’s figures, this would mean a 10% decrease across all other departments. Brown used this to heavily imply that the Tories would cut spending on schools and the NHS where Labour would increase ‘investment.’
This was an outright LIE. The only reason the Conservatives would be cutting spending elsewhere is because they would be increasing spending in these areas by more than Labour have planned!
Brown’s response when Cameron challenged him on this point was equally misleading; Brown pointed to the fact that there would be real terms increases in overall expenditure. But the only reason why there are real terms increases is because unemployment benefit will have to go up during the recession and because interest payments are going to increase by a massive 8%! This accounts for the entire proposed increase in spending.
As there will also be a huge fall in revenue the rest will have to be made up for by cuts, this means that under Labour there will be 7% cuts to all public services. As the Tories are ring fencing Education, NHS and International Development Spending, the cuts must be larger elsewhere hence the 10% figure.
A truly shameless performance by totally discredited PM.
I agree, Nick.
Brown and Labour are desperate for anything to damage the Tories, and distorting facts and figures is second nature to Gordon Brown.
Trouble is, a lot of the effect will depend upon how it is reported by the BBC.
"Tory cuts" was used - very effectively - by Blair, for over 10 long yrs. Every PMQs he would get in that phrase at least once - and the public swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.
Now Brown has some ammunition - however warped it is - ammunition nonetheless.
It saddens me that the Tories cannot put an argument forward as to why cuts are desirable - even necessary - because they are terrified of the electoral consequence.
Cameron was right when he said Brown has nothing to lose - so he will say and promise anything to stay in power.
The Tories HAVE to counter this move by Brown very quickly. Poll leads can disappear very quickly - just ask Labour.
Squiffy said...
A clear win by DC. I just wish he had a stronger answer for the 10% cuts jibe.
DC should say, "yes, of course we will have to make cuts" and then ask Brown to explain how he expects to be able to simultaneously increase spending and reduce debt.
I think people are intelligent enough to realise that tough fiscal measures are essential and a bit of honesty from a politician would make a welcome change.
And changing the subject, what an abject looking crew Brown had on his front bench today. They all looked shagged-out and useless. He even had the orange crook sitting next to him. Good grief!
In the budget Darling has effcetively cut spending by 7%.
All Dave has to do when Brown starts the usual mantra is toss copy of the budget statement to him.
He should add that the chancellor was too busy flipping houses and must have forgotten to mention it to him - 2 gestures for the price of one.
Cameron has started to just sound opportunistic. Brown ahead this week.
Brown is shameless, boring and a liar.
However much as I hate to say this I thought he did well - for him.
DC was genuinely trying to get info out of Brown about his scorched earth constitutional plans.
DC also needs to frame Brown boats about borrowing more and more money to spend on consumption better ( he calls it investing ).
Its time for a clear message on the governments financial crisis. DC's line should be - well talk future spending when you own up to the current financial crisis in govt.
The Constitutional stuff is Gordo's plans to fill the newspapers for 6 months and wrong foot the Tories, whilst lining up the most desperate of people the Lib Dems for a quick alliance behind the bike shed if its a hung parliament after then next GE.
This is all going to be tricky....
Perhaps Cameron needs to ask Thatcher`s voice coach for some tips in how to project and lower his voice. His reedy baritone is ineffectual and gets annoying at times.......Brown just moos on and on and Cameron`s points, though valid , don`t carry conviction because of his poor delivery.
Waterboarding Brown? No that's an idea. After all, Scotland Yard's doing it now apparently so satisfaction is just a short taxi ride from SW1.
I hate to say this, but the last two weeks - when brown and labour have been on their knees - Cameron has looked pretty weak to me.
For whatever reason, despite the polls and recent elections, he seems to be lacking conviction - and confidence.
Lansley gave brown and Labour a very simple open goal today - and, as much as it annoys me, Brown scored an easy tap-in, however unjustified.
Now Brown has a narrative - something he hasn't really had before - and the public might - might - listen to him.
Cameron and the Tories should be cock-a-hoop at the moment - not Brown.
When all of the facts are laid bare, and the BBC report the truth - ie Labour's planned spending cuts - the public will see straight through Brown's deep cynicism.
Like his proposed electoral reform debate, as he puts it.
Don't panic, Conservative supporters. Labour are finished, no matter what lies they try to sell to the public.
Dave 8
Gorgon 5
Clegg 6
Brown lied and lied avoiding all questions. Cameron seemed confident but found it difficult to nail the ditherer. Clegg asked worthy question receiving more lies.
We can see Brown's election strategy lies, lies and more lies.
Brown's election strategy -
Smear
Distort
Divide
Let's hope the public don't swallow this disgusting man's bile.
Am I dreaming or did I hear a reference somewhere to TV Licences?
Boo
great idea.
contempt of Parliament should be worse than contempt of court
Gordon Brown and his toadying sound bite spurting underlings are a collective insult to the intelligence of the country. His much vaunted Presbyterian conscience doesn't prevent him lying at every PMQ's. The country is broke. The only way to get out of the mess is to tighten belts and take some hard medicine. To suggest otherwise is infantile. Time for DC to give it to the country straight. The electorate is ready for the bad news because most of us know it already. As ever Brown and his worthless aparatchiks rant on about 'investment'. They haven't a clue what the word means. We do though. In Labour la la land investment equals tax and spend. Let's have an election now!
Time after time Labour churns out numbers. And there is never a firm response from DC. At some point DC is going to have to make a stand. He is going to have to find a way to pin Brown down on detail. There are an awful lot of voters out there who care for nothing more than which government is going to give them the biggest cheque. It has to be clearly shown to them that government coffers are empty and unless the spending habits of this lamentable and egotistical PM are curtailed, the consequences for our children do not bear thinking about. Alas, I don't have a clue as to how to translate the complexities of government finances into a story that the majority of voters can comprehend. And that, I suspect, is DC's biggest problem as well.
What is the point of Prime Ministers Questions when the Prime Minister doesn't answer the questions. The speaker is there to ensure fair play and see that every member has his due. A less partisan speaker might compel the respondent to actually answer the question.
Sorry but the people that vote Labour don't care about debt or tax levels. Most of them are Scottish or northerners who claim benefits. Until benefits get cut they don't care if the rest of us are taxed to the hilt.
On the reform of voting, McSnot knows that when the Tories will the next election the jocks may well vote for independence (we can only hope they do) meaning that Labour will lose that block vote of 50 seats, putting them as a minority party confined to the north west north east and parts of London.
Then will be out of of power for 40 years at least.
Cameron was weak today. Why didn't he go on about Post office privatisation? Why didn't he go on about unemployment? Why no mention of the mess in Afghanistan?
Martin - agree that the north will vote Labour as long as more than 50% of voters work for state or council or are on benefits of one kind or another, but aren't there plenty of Labour client states in London, too?
Brown lies days in, day out and especially at PM question time when he trot(t)s out tractor stats which a load of bollox.
Yet Dave boy doesn't nail the bastard.
As for Brown Presbyterian values of "truth and honesty" well, that doesn't count if Brown really believes what he saying is the truth.
As for his Moral Compass, it is lost up the Parliamentary side of his erse.
Two points:
1. when The Daily Politics gal read out a few questions from viewers they all said that GB's line on cuts was a lie/distorsion/untruth... so the "labour spend vs tory cuts" line does not seemd to be getting any traction. And given the Beeb's built in bias you know that if there had been a pro-Brown email there they would have used it!
2. PMQs has become a joke where GB never answers a question unless it's a friendly plant to allow him to roll out his misleading stats.
DC clear winner but they have to smash this 10% bullshit once an for all otherwise it will fester even though it is wrong.
What I think is, why are Tories going to increase spending on international aid?
Unless it is possible to compell him to answer a straight question with a straight, and above all accurate, answer, then nailing Brown is very hard. It is why Mr Cameron often cannot give the "knockout blow". Brown appears to have a certain number of lines that he uses as answers, often based on what he says the Tories would do. Perhaps if he wants to clean up politics, then he could add that to the constitutional reform agenda.
Have to cut - priorities to pay for like Gerald Kaufman's £220 crystal glass grapefruit bowl. Excuse - he has "self diagnosed obsessive compulsive disease". His OCD requires him to eat half a grapefruit every morning and it must come from such a bowl.
I wonder if one of the constitutional reforms will be to turn PMQs into Opposition Leader's questions? Brown certainly uses them that way at present. He didn't actually answer one question himself, just asked them, and the useless Speaker aids and abets him in that tactic.
Unless I missheard, Brown also talked about increasing Welsh devolutionary powers, and the Calman review of Scottish devolution, but England wasn't mentioned once - just "cities and regions". Doesn't this Scottish PM understand that the English don't want anything to do with that; just the back of him and his Scottish mafia sticking their noses into English domestic affairs and public services? England is a nation, not a collection of European-inspired regions!!
Think "Wapping Boy" 12.47pm got it right. DC has so many goals to score that he fails to convert the easy ones.Surely there must be somebody in the shaddow cabinet that keeps in the touch with the real world/voters - if we can see the failings of NewLiebour surely there must be a front bench spokesperson that can take Labour to task. Have me doubts though!!
"England is a nation, not a collection of European-inspired regions!!"
That's exactly what it is as long as we remain in the EU.
Forget about PMQs. Thec common man and woman in the street who are voters do not bother about PMQs. PMQs are the throwback from the age when there was wireless, and people listened to what was asked and pread papers. There was no 24/7 life then.
Cameron and his team should work out their policies,get proper people in at the front bench and more than anything should be visible to the media-TV. Come Summer, the Shadow cabinet should take less holidays and be available to ridicule Brown in public on the TV. That is the only way to get rid of the scoundrels when the election is called. Forget the PMQs Not many voters are bothered.
I think when Dave gets in next June he should rename PMQs to PMQs _AND_ F*****G As.
Z.
Anonymous 3.38: Exactly. And can a party credibly claim to be Conservative when it plans to do this, but refuses to ring fence (and therefore will almost certainly cut) finance for our already underfunded and undersize defence forces?
Cameron is truly the heir to Blair. Not a reason to vote for him for those of us who fervently hope the latter will have no political issue.
Lansley's 10% comment was maladroit leaving Cameron to do a bit of fancy footwork. Brown missed the open goal by parrotting 'Tory cuts' and 'sacking nurses', which everyone here and on the Daily Politics immediately saw through as lies.
Cameron wasn't trying to land a KO today. His line - quite effective- was to draw any punch from the constitutional statement and lay down some markers if Brown tries to railroad electoral change.
Clegg looked shattered.
Cameron - 6 - workmanlike
Brown - 5 - Norwegian parrot
Clegg - 2 - Needs some Prozac
In the current circumstances...
David Davies would have made a better Tory Leader
Very weak from Cameron. He insists on trying to outflank Brown on single issues instead of a multiple-style of attack.
Nick Clegg still comes across as a pompous public school boy who likes to put digs in for the sake of it.
Strange thing happening. Brown looks de-mob happy - in other words, he knows it doesn't matter that much whether he stays or goes - or really what he says. Nice plum job when he leaves Parliament anyway.
Cameron is in an entirely different position - he is pitching himself to become PM - Brown isn't. To that effect, Cameron has to think a lot more about what he says, because Brown knows he and Labour are finished after the next GE.
Don't be too harsh on Cameron's performance today - he has played a blinder over the last few months, in utter contrast to Brown.
Cameron has the makings of a great PM - if he believes in himself and his ideas.
IMO Cameron should stop putting the party first and start putting the country first. Stop pulling his punches and finish Brown off.
We're currently in so much debt our Grandchildren will be paying it off. If he keeps spunking money up the wall at the same rate for the next year, Gordon will leave the next how many generations in debt?
If Dave isn't careful the country will be finished by the time he becomes PM. If he has to put up taxes too much then the productive part of the economy is likely to just leave...
Z.
very entertaining speech by Hague on the dissolution debate at present
GB now has his sound bite, his reply to everything. Basically any Tory who thought that this was going to be easy will now have to think again. The work starts now, everyday, day after day. Setting the agenda, making the points unlike today where we see rushed out PDF's of spending plans because a shadow minister got a bit keen and spoke outside of his remit!!
In their joint condemnation of the BNP (condemnation I agree with) neither party had the courage to mention the elephant in the room but instead concentrated on the other sideshows such as jobs etc. Until the policy of open-door immigration is debated by the mainstream parties the likes of the BNP will grow and grow.
I think you should all find some thing much more constructive to do with your time rather than watch PMQ's. It's pure theatre and in any case now Brown is so weakend and demeaned and every body after last weeks' press conference, knows he is an habitual liar and a bully. He can say absolutely anything, but who believes him now any way? Completely discredited.So just why do you bother? Brown is just an habitual liar, just like all his team, saying the same thing from the script they have all been e-mailed. Emperors new clothes! In any case his policies are worked out accordinbg to how much they can damage the tories. We all know this. Bring back Michael Foot!
"Weak, tired, discredited" means "only able to reach twenty-eight per cent of thirty-five per cent", Dave.
I saw the bit where Cameron and Brown were arguing about which one of them hated the BNP most.
Rivetting. Not.
The Tories' 10% cut isn't even a cut, it's just a different allocation of the pie that Labour intends to share out. Brown is a demonstrable LIAR!
What I find really upsetting is the fact that the tories intend to piss the same amount against the wall as the socialists. Bollocks to that, let's have some real, to-the-bone cuts in public expenditure.
Iain,
Please put up the Sky news video (Conservative Home has it) that shows Diane Abbott ridiculing (in her own special way) Keith Vaz in the Commons.
It is absolutely fantastic and deserves a wider viewing!
It is not Leader of the Opposition Questions as Brown thinks it is.
I just wish Brown would answer the questions put to him instead of asking them.
the one thing we dont want to talk about are cuts in the public sector...bad day for the tories
Lol I knew it. The BBC headline -
"10% TORY CUTS!!"
that will start to stick if the BBC want it to.
Blair got away with it for 10 years.
That was amusing Captain, thanks for the up...
I just hope DC has a good reason for holding back on destroying Brown, the ammo is there in front of him, is he scared to fire it?
I'm getting increasingly angry with Cameron. He looks more and more like a shallow opportunist and he cannot seem to nail Brown. Remember how Blair used to give Major a pasting in the dog days of the last Tory government - that's what Cameron should be doing. Come on, Dave, get a grip!
Cameron did OK this week but not much better than that. Is he deliberately going easy on Brown or is he just not up to the job?
Anne Diamond is almost as big a fake as David Cameron.
I agree with the Honourable Commenter 'Evil Clanger' @ 5:39
Labour's policy is for an 'across the board' cut of 7% (including the NHS). (This is derived from the figures given by Brown at PMQs)
The Conservatives have pledged to ringfence the NHS budget, therefore if they were to make the same total cut to public expenditure as Labour is planning they would have to cut the non-NHS budgets by 10%.
Please read Fraser Nelson
Constantly Curious @ 6:27 :
'Blair used to give Major a pasting in the dog days of the last Tory government - that's what Cameron should be doing'
The voters (ably assisted by David Cameron) gave Labour a MAJOR pasting last week: They came 3rd in the Local Elections and the European Election. I was there! I helped! :D
Conand
Very true. The voters seemed less keen to positively support the Conservatives though. Surely they ought to be getting well over 40% of the vote given the state of the government? I don't think Cameron is up to scratch.
Bullingdon Dave is a shallow salesman - no more, no less. The only reason he wants a General Election now is for his own personal self-interest. He must take us all for fools with his guff about the public interest. What a cunt.
It makes me feel physically sick to hear Dave's posh 'reedy baritone' bleating on at PMQs. I'd love to punch the smug toff in the gob.
Iain
Why does hardly anyone post here any more? And how come Guido gets so many? Are you jealous?
Watched but didnt see the PM, saw and heard Gordon Brown avoiding questions as usual, throwing his 'Tory Cuts' phrase in, (God knows where the money is going to come from..maybe we can print some more), but all in all the new PM didnt show...don think he is allowed to.
Good news is we are almost rid of McBruin..bad news is we have The Lord of Mordor instead..so watch guys, destroy your rings..he is watching you.
I hope that David Cameron is serious about change and people power. If he is - he will support a referendum into electoral reform. We, the people, should decide how we want our MPs elected not the turkeys in the House of Commons who won't vote for Xmas.
Conand
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
'The most electorally successful' since the 19th century? I haven't laughed so much in ages! You really are a card. I think a certain Lady T might dispute that one, even in her dribbling senility.
The Spurious/Curious Crap said @ 7:21
'Surely they ought to be getting well over 40% of the vote given the state of the government?'
Well, he won both Elections handsomely. He has won overall every set of local elections since becoming leader. He won the Euro elections with a 12% lead over Labour, even though many Conservative voters voted UKIP.
Brown has always badly lost head to head elections against Cameron. Of those contested, Labour have 178 County Councillors, The Conservatives have 1531 County Councillors. Of the three main parties the Conservatives were the only one with a net increase in the number of Councillors.
The Conservatives have the Councils, Labour need counselling.
Cameron is a very good Party Leader. In many ways he is the most electorally successful Conservative leader since the 19th Century. Brown has destroyed the Labour party in Local Government.
Conand - Cameron is not a 'brilliant leader' by any stretch of the imagination. He is doing OK but don't forget he's in just about the most favourable political conditions an opposition leader could wish for - crap government, crap PM, dire economy. How come he can only get 28% of a very low turnout to support his party?
"Cameron is a very good Party Leader. In many ways he is the most electorally successful Conservative leader since the 19th Century."
This is the funniest thing anyone has ever posted here. Ever. Thanks so much.
Methinks Curious protests far far far too much.
And yes, think where the Conservatives were and where they are now. Think where Labour were and where they are now. Brown is a crap leader and a pathetic, spineless, lying, bully.
Oh good, I'm glad I cheered you up. Reality is funny when you see it. The socialist blinkers have been pulled from our eyes.
By the way, what is this? A Liebore flashmob?
I don't deny Brown is a pathetic and utterly crap leader. In fact, that's my point. Why can't Cameron do better? Just because things have improved since the Quiet Man was working his political 'magic' doesn't mean the Bullingdon boys are doing well.
'How come he can only get 28% of a very low turnout to support his party?'
Oh the Euro election? The one he won massively. Well it is 28% + most of 16.5%, Labour got 15.7%
:-O UhOh for Liebore!
conand,
"even though many Conservative voters voted UKIP."
If he was anything of a leader that just would not have happened.
I listened to Hague ripping the Labour lot apart... to think that he was judged to be a poor leader... and Dave judged to be good!
as they say, you couldn't make it up.
Cameron has, very cleverly, been packing his punches recently, but now that he has acheived his goal of keeping Brown there until the next Election, he can demolish him - and he will!
It's clear that Brown's war cry from now on to the election is "Expect Tory Cuts".
The IFS and Fraser Nelson have already exposed the hidden 7% cut across the board cuts contained in Darling's Budget.
We also know that the 10% cut mooted on radio this morning by the Tory spokesman amounted to the same gross total in cuts by New Labour as Darling tried to hide, and was simply the re-distributed increased effect on everything else because the Tories are going to exclude Health spending from cuts as opposed to darling whose budget made it clear that New Labour are cutting health spending as well.
So why the hell did Cameron not point all of this out in his riposte to Brown?????????????????????
If Cameron continues to mess up on fundamental things like this then Brown will get away time and time again with his lies and deceptions at PMQ's.
@Haddock
Spot on. Hague looked poor, of course, because he was up against an election-winning political genius. What's Cameron's excuse?
I just don't think a millionaire Old Etonian can ever have enough fire in the belly for a proper fight. Brown, on the other hand, would rather take us all down with him than give up the keys to No 10...
Is it just me or is Conand a complete tit-head?
Now that Brown is certain to stay as PM, Cameron can take him to pieces week after week until he is finally finished off by the electorate next May 6th.
BBC headline - 10% Tory cuts!
Sky News Headline - 10% Tory cuts!
ITN News - 10% Tory cuts!
Channel 4 News - 10% Tory cuts!
2 months of growth for the economy.
It's been a good day for Brown and Labour - as much as I hate to say it.
Grow up, Conand, you big baby. If you can't take the heat, fuck off out of the kitchen.
Tomfiglio: Yes I did say some parts of London are Labour dominated benefits havens, but it's mostly the north.
11:55 Daily Politics: Toenails Robinson mentions the 10% Tory cuts
12:00 PMQs: labour plant sets up 10% Tory cuts soundbite
12:02 PMQs: Brown says "labour investments, Tory cuts"
12:20 PMQs: another labour plant mentions Tory 10% cuts
12:21 PMQs: Brown repeats this week's message "labour investment, Tory 10% cuts"
18:00 BBC News: Edited footage of Brown saying "10% Tory cuts" in PMQs
And so the propaganda machine completes its effective cycle...
GORDON did well until he mentioned the words, 'do nothing Tories.' Here's a challenge to GORDON. How log can he last a PMQs without saying those two or three words?
Wow Stephanie Flanders actually reported the 10% Cuts story correctly. A bit late in the day...but then that was deliberate.
BBC in full changing the narrative 'Save Gordon!' mode.
to be fair, the BBC presented a balanced piece about cuts on news at ten.
Brown won't get away with portraying the tories as swingeing cutters - because Labour would have to do exactly the same.
It's an utterly desperate ply from an utterly desperate PM and government.
Times have changed - the public now realise that spending cannot go on the way it has been.
Marian: "It's clear that Brown's war cry from now on to the election is "Expect Tory Cuts".
He hasn't worked out yet that 75% of voters will be yelling 'Hooray, about time too'.
Trouble is neither has the bloody Dave and George show.
I think it is a load of mince an insult to both democracy and peoples' intelligence. The truth of the matter is that no proper debates take place in Parliament.
Since Labour came to power their contempt for the whole tiresome procedure of being "held to account" has been answered by the use of; the guillotine, the three line whip and the Labour domination of every select committee
Discussion and debate, including the pointless PMQs are reduced to farce. The end result is a stream of bad laws trundling of the Westminster conveyor and any "tidy-ups" the Lords try valiantly to do are met with cries of derision from Labour about this unelected assembly sabotaging their inept laws. Doesn't stop Labour from piling more and more of their folks into the Lords though, Kinnock and Sugar the latest.
The end result is poor Government and MPs with nothing much else to do, other than using all their spare time to fill in ever more "creative" expense claims.
If you go through Ian Dale's twitter feed and replace every proper name with Ian Dale, it works much better.
For example: "If I saw Ian Dale on the street now, I'd cheerfully deck him. Tosser."
"Who is this dickhead Ian Dale on Newsnight? With every word he speaks he condemns his case, And what a fashion faux pas."
Speaker Martin does not shut up the rabble when Clegg speaks so he simply cannot get his message across amongst the hum of conversation that continues around him (Labour benches?).
So Clegg needs to work out how to ask BIG questions at every session so that the whole Commons has his attention.
I think Cameron should employ some business presentation specialists to help him - he is simply not scoring heavyweight hits at PMQ's against an opponent who is on his last legs.There should be some knock-out blows but they don't seem to have the skill to plot their way around the 30 minutes session.
All pretty depressing frankly.
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