PMQs was dominated today by public spending, something I suspect will be repeated a lot between now and the election. David Cameron tried to pin down the Prime Minister on the fact that Labour's spending plans post 2011 involve real cuts. Brown, of course, admitted no such thing and maintained that spending would continue to rise in both cash and real terms. Brown hit back quoting Andrew Lansley's 10% line. Cameron pressed and pressed and Brown got angrier and angrier, no doubt because he has been found out. Every commentator agrees with Cameron's line and knows that Brown isn't telling the truth on this. Cameron finished by telling the Prime Minister that his line of argument is exactly why people don't trust him. Labour MPs barracked him heavily to which Cameron replied: "They shout for half an hour on a Wednesday and spend the rest of the week trying to get rid of him." He said he thought people were calling Brown Mr Ten Per Cent because it reflected his opinion poll rating.
Nick Clegg asked two innocuous questions about banking regulation which Brown swiped away fairly easily. Why didn't he mention Trident?
All in all, this PMQs shed more heat than light - no change there then. It's almost impossible for Cameron to debate an issue with Brown because he is a) unwilling ever to answer a straight question and b) all he does is shout slogans.
Brown 5
Cameron 6
Clegg 3
129 comments:
Iain
You actually thought Cameron won? Brown beat Cameron and you could see Brown was much more sure footed.
You could also see Labour MPs were really going at Cameron.
I would give out of 10
Brown- 8
Cameron-7
Clegg-4
Really? I thought
Brown - 4
Cameron - 7
Clegg -3
Nick Robinson's comments as usual on the Daily Politics was as biased as usual. Would not have guessed that I was watching the same PMQ's as he was. BBC biased yet again. Cameron exposed Brown for what he really is!!!!!
Sorry, placed on wrong one!
Nick Robinson the Labour apologist on Politics Show thinks that Brown and Co have got the better of Cameron on the issue of 10%cuts.
I have to say that the Tories do not look convincing. Gove was brilliant against balls but against the lightweight, Bradshaw, was poor.
I think this summer had better be spent with getting their policies tidy, just what they intend to do.
I honestly believe they could learn a lot from Boris.
Promise to have the books of all departments audited and the full facts revealed to the people!
Londoners liked that and it proved a good policy!
Brown was typical BUT he did look bouyant!
Cameron 5. Clegg 5.
Brown 3 out of 10
Brown had the oppurtunity to accept that "some" cuts may be cecessary, but we are nicer than tories.
He decided to Lie.
As this continues he will look more and more deluded/deceitful. Either that or he will have to do the mother of all U-turns
Cameron, for the third week in a row, was terrible. He's against a weak PM, in the death throws of a dying govt, yet, Cameron looks somehow very nervous to me.
Plus he's started to make mistakes - the line about the recession in Europe was seriously clumsy.
Where has Cameron's confidence gone?
He is on the right side of the "cuts" argument - so where is his conviction to Brown's shameless propaganda and lies?
Brown was his usual unbalanced self - shouting, aggressive, ham-fisted, mendacious, etc. Some of his grins and mannerisms were straight out of Bedlam mental institute. Nothing we haven't seen scores of times before with Brown - all clunking rhetoric and fist banging nuttiness.
Clegg has gone back to his old self - utterly lightweight.
Overall -
Brown - 4
Cameron 5
Clegg - 0
None of them seem to have a clue at the moment.
the next election will be fought on public services.if any party say they will cut them they will lose the election.fact
Westminster needs a Speaker thats not a Scotch communist and someone who can read.
Meanwhile, in the real world...
Everyone knows that public spending has to be cut, so it's pointless for Brown to pretend otherwise. In fact, it's quite self-defeating because it just emphasises what a liar Brown is and how he treats voters like fools.
One of the side effects of the expenses fall-out is that people now assume that it's not just MPs who cost us a fortune but the whole public sector. That needs to be pruned right back and the public knows that Labour will never do it. "Waste" is a concept you now hear far more often - "Tory cuts", maybe, but the alternative is Labour waste and a descent into national bankruptcy. People are aware of that distinction.
'...a) unwilling ever to answer a straight question and b) all he does is shout slogans.'
Becasue the Speaker allows him to do so and has now for some 8 years. That is why Margaret Beckett will be the new Speaker. It's called failing to hold the Prime Minister to account in the house.
Anonymous said...
the next election will be fought on public services.if any party say they will cut them they will lose the election.fact
June 17, 2009 12:54 PM
Nearly. The next election will be fought on how to save the UK from national bankruptcy.
God that was dire! "10% 10% 10% 10% 10% 10%" - my damned parrot could do as well as that!
as for @Anonymous 12:54 PM: "the next election will be fought on public services.if any party say they will cut them they will lose the election.fact"
I reckon that you're wrong. It seems finally to have dawned on the poor sods who actually have to stump up for everything, ie non-public-employed tax payers (who still are in the majority, just) that cuts in public expenditure are not such a bad thing after all.
I am very concerned not one question on Bermuda and the deplorable arrogant ignorance of the sainted Obama for placing 4 Chinese Muslims on our protected territory.
I am ashamed at our politicians, so weak and, a government that is too weak for purpose.
We will be on the streets of England like our Iranian friends to get rid of this imbecile and his gang of merry-men
Cameron has an impossible task trying to sell bad news to the electorate.
He's struggling at the moment. I think Lansley's comments have gifted Brown and Labour a very simple election line.
Cameron looks, for the first time since Brown became PM, to be on the back foot. Sorry to say I agrre with Nick Robinson's overtly biased comments - Labour think they have Cameron - and I think maybe that could be true.
Do the public want Conservative reality, or Labour illusion? Hhmm.
Being a student and having just joined the Conservative Party in the past year, I've got to say, Brown won that.
Does Cameron not realise that his argument is not strong against the Shadow Health Secretary's 10% cut gaffe? Ok, its not as straight forward as that but some people don’t understand the detail.
From my and a neutral perspective, I'm sure, people would see Brown slowly picking back up form, he loves policy debates and at the moment looks stronger in that department.
Don’t get me wrong though, if there was an election tomorrow I would do anything to get Cameron into Number 10, but sometimes you have to be honest on occasions such as these. Might as well start now, than when you have to learn the hard way when Cameron will be on the back foot in 18 months or so time!
It is what the commentators take out of PMQ's and put on their news pages. We know what colour Robinson is becoming so he puts and out and reinforces "Mr 10%". Therefore the process has begun. Say something often enough and people will believe it. Robinson does. Who is next? When do we start seeing the posters. When do we start hearing "David Cameron, or Mr 10% as he is known on the labour benchs" being quoted by political reporters. It is all about what people remember. You could have the best arguement in the world, speak for twenty minutes, detail line by line cuts and spend but at the end of the debate people will say "you are still going to cut everything by 10% arent you, Mr 10%". There is a thing in US politics that says that individuals are mostly bright and can understand the arguement. But put people together and they become sheep, the intelligence goes and they look for the easy route - David Cameron, Tories, oh yes they the party that is going to cut everything by 10%. Makes all the arguement pointless, all down to one slogan "Mr 10%".
Since all Brown does is refuse to answer the question and shout slogans, Cameron needs to change his tactics. Don't know how or to what, but then I'm not a politician.
DMC - you thought Brown was more sure footed? Well, if shouting the same thing over and over again is being sure footed, then I would have to agree with you.
I thought Clegg came across well, Gordon was very angry for most of it, shame Cameron paused at the wrong moment and let Gordon get back in the game but he did what was needed.
Cameron win. Gordon lied.
I do not know why Cameron does not simply say 'We promise to match Labour cuts' and if after auditing all the books we will open them up to the public and before committing additional cuts on the people. Those responsible for the economic mismanagement will be held responsible. It is pure, simple and, causes Labour to respond from the back foot.
Let's hope the incoming Speaker forces Brown to answer questions he's asked.
Is there a way of pruning out planted questions? If 20% of the questions are planted, and the rest not answered, what is the point of having PMQs?
The alternative thread :-
... The Prime Minister tried to pin down David Cameron on the fact that the Conservatives plan 10% cuts in spending . cameron , of course , admitted no such thing . Brown pressed and pressed but Cameron got angrier and angrier , no doubt because he has been found out . Every commentator agrees wuth Brown's line and knows that Cameron isn't telling the truth on this .......
Usual biased marks out of 10 as is customary on threads such as this
Brown 2
Cameron 1
Clegg 9
Remember if you say the same lie long enough, people including yourself will actually start to believe it. Also remember that Gordon Brown still thinks he runs the country.
Brown was very angry and tub thumpy today, like a Scottish Neil Kinnock.
Now I'm no expert but I would venture to suggest his poll rating might go into minus figures if he carries on with the celtic crossness nonsense.
Whoever wins the election, its a poisoned chalice.
If we the electorate vote in another Labour government that's what we deserve. I actually think that some Labour MPs would be almost relieved not to get in and have to sort out the mess.
Incidentally, I thought that Gordon Brown looked ill today. He might still be able to clunk his fist, but he didn't look good.
Brown used his fake tractor stats again.
"Let me read them..to the honourable members as its all I've got to say. m,m,m,m,mmr speaker,, 62 - 63 - 64 -64-64-64 Zoo Lane."
After PMQs Robinson was saying that the media will get bored of the Cuts v Lies argument. This is of course what Labour want. They will never tire of shouting their slogans and will hope to go unchallenged. (See a recent Fraser Nelson piece on Blogging and the coming General Election).
Robinson went on to say that people will instead focus on who will cut what. A fair point. Ben Bradshaw started nodding his head as Robinson was saying this.
Unbelievable! He won't admit that there will have to be any cuts anywhere. How the hell is that engaging in the debate Robinson was outlining? Talk about a brassneck. Labour are disgusting. How the hell is that 'democratic renewal'? Just bulldozing through with the same pathetic tactic of lies and bullying. 'The many' deserve better than that.
Brown 0
Cameron 6
Clegg 4
And Brown will continue to score 0 in the public's view every time until he answers a question.
Get this into your thick head, Gord - no answer, no points, and, more importantly, no votes.
cameron was on the defensive after admitting the recession is europe wide and nothing to do with Brown
Brown might have blustered his way through PMQs but now the analysis will start of what he said.
He lied to the nation and this will be widely reported. His statistics are bare-faced lies and we all know it.
Cameron did pretty well- as well as anyone can against someone who just parrots the same old lies time and time again.
Brown 0
Cameron 6
Clegg 0 (What planet was he on?)
Does anyone know where best to write to complain about Nick Robinson's bias?
Either he's dumb or partisan. He virtually confirmed he was gonna allow himself to be taken in/conned by Brown today. Unbelievable.
All great arguements but as the thread title states "Mr 10%". Sh1t sticks regardless of who throws it.
Will be very interesting to see the next set of polls, now everyone has heard the arguments about "cutsgate".
Cameron needs to be very, very careful how he plays this. The one thing he doesn't want to do is unite Labour behind Brown - that spells trouble.
I have some sympathy for Cameron - trying to battle against a professional liar like Brown is difficult.
The Tories have been put on the back foot for now - but with a clumsy idiot like Brown as PM, that can change in an instant.
Don't panic, Tories. Never underestimate Brown's capacity to screw things up.
Cameron looked weak,i think he should stop talking public service cuts.Can we have some real policys please...
Andrew Neil seems appalled by Nicks pusillanimity. Neil treats all politicians with the same level of scepticism and equal opportunity hostility, Nick Robinson is staggeringly credulous and westminster embedded.
Time he was pushed to make way for someone with sense.
I thought Brown pipped DC today. Though at one point I thought Browns anger illustrated how he's still on the edge.
If Tories want to cut, then they must show that Lab will have to as well. That arguement will not be won or lost in PMQ's but in the media at large. DC should have made more of the IFS report and he threw it away.
I am not sure DC really got anywhere today. Clegg certainly didn't. Brown told some more lies but the media are now starting to pick him up on that so it doesn't help him either.
The Tories need a gamechanger to seal the deal and I personally think it is "Yes, we will cut public expenditure by more than you because otherwise this country is going bankrupt thanks to your incompetence." I am old enough to remember a strong Thatcher speech in 78/79 holding a £10 note and saying that for everyone of these the Government spends £1 is borrowed. DC only needs a fiver.
Lets be honest here Iain, Labour MP's barracked Cameron because he said that the recession was a European one, as opposed to one of the governments making
The economy getting better,lower than expected job losses,the lisbon treaty in october being voted in by the Irish,second jobs being published,and no sign of anything being done on tory mps who have done wrong with there expenses claims...........not looking good
Did David Cameron give an explanation why he is not going to offer a referendum on the Lisbon treaty?
Sod the traditions of parliament, Brown so frequently does.
Just stand up, say that you will accept your punishment for what you are about to say, call Brown a liar to his face (not through the speaker) and then sit down and see what the speaker does.
That will get Cameron on the news, and will show to Joe Public just what Brown is.
Wait a sec, if people get bored of the investment vs cuts line, doesn't that help the Tories?
Tory cuts is th eonly weapon left in Brown's arsenal.
What happens if people are bored of it?
Ten per cent?
1 in 10 people in the midlands are now unemployed. Presumably that doesn't include those in education or on disability etc.
Borrowing will have to increase and cuts will be made by any party in government.
Brown's a liar and anyone who watched PMQs knows it. PoliticsHome have just released a poll showing that only 48% of LABOUR voters believe Brown's spending plans. When 52% of your own supporters think your are a liar then you are in deep trouble.
Cameron knows what he is doing. The polls are showing that the people think Brown is a liar and Cameron is letting the idiot hang himself.
The more Brown lies about increasing spending, the lower Labour will poll.
Also: Anon Trolls, you are as transparent as we would like Brown to be.
Surely a 'son of the Manse' would not tell untruths?
***cameron was on the defensive after admitting the recession is europe wide and nothing to do with Brown***
I don't think Cameron has ever said that Brown caused the recession, has he? Isn't the point that Brown has left us badly placed to weather the recession?
Very generous for giving Brown 5 this week Iain. I thought he was worth only a 1. He was as ever talking like he thinks the British people have come off the banana boat. Everybody knows cuts will be on the agenda. Cameron wiped the floor with Brown today. And Nick Clegg I thought was quite good this week too. That's three or four weeks on the trot.
My review of PMQs here http://www.plenty2say.com
I agree with a previous anon about the next set of polls. If they show a narrowing of the gap, the public are starting to swallow Brown's lies - and that could spell disaster for the Tories.
I will say this - Brown looks and sounds more and more unhinged. If the public return Labour to office with a nutcase as PM - well, then we will get exactly what we deserve.
Oh, almost forgot. Clegg was utterly useless today. The Liberals are going back to their default position - irrelevance.
@ londonmuslim
"cameron was on the defensive after admitting the recession is europe wide and nothing to do with Brown"
It may not have dawned on you, but those two aspects are entirely separate. And just explain how Cameron 'admitted' that this recession was 'nothing to do with Brown'. Where exactly did he say that?
Or is this another Labour (perhaps "londonmuslim") lie?
Ian,
You seem to think that Cameron did well – I thought he was ill-prepared. If he is going to nail this lie, he needs to start talking facts and figures. For example, today Brown outlined what he called real terms spending increases: “£603 to £629 to £633 to £638 to £642". It wasn’t enough for Cameron just to retort that these increases did not take account of higher debt repayments and increased welfare bills; rather he should have asked directly by how much our debt repayments and welfare bills were expected to rise over this period of time. Of course, Brown won’t answer, but if Cameron had the figures to hand then he could challenge Brown to deny them and simultaneously illustrate how Brown’s spending increases were just an illusion i.e. every £ spend on paying welfare and interest repayments is a £ less to be spent on schools, hospitals etc… and since these non-discretionary payments are greater than Brown’s planned increases, then departmental budgets will suffer.
As you say, it’s not rocket science and I agree, Cameron doesn’t need to get too technical, but some facts and figures (if deployed sparingly) would sustain rather than complicate and dilute his argument. Today – Brown won (despite not telling the truth) because he was the only leader quoting figures of any kind and this made him sound credible, even though he wasn’t (if you catch my drift)…
Brown is right with his attacks on Cameron's inheritance tax cuts. How can you go around cutting taxes for the wealthy while everyone else has to suffer cuts to vital public services?
Brown 8 Cameron 6 Clegg 3 - but Cameron's focusing on the word "straight" repeated about ten times is also surely worth noting?
PS Sheesh. Robinson is a Tory. Just relatively honest.
Anon@:
click on the email CU just below the message space adds.
Gove on the bbc sounded terrible and out of touch,the old line about his expensis I WAS WITHIN THE RULES...stinks
Iain, the worst thing you can do is head a blog with "Mr Ten Per Cent". Think about it. Nick Robinson says -
"even the Tory blogs are worried by the label........." -
therefore, it has a snowball effect, and before you know it, Cameron starts being referred to, not by his first name, but.....
Don't fulfill the prophecy set out by Labour propaganda. It's very dangerous.
Why not -
"PMQs Review: More Brown Lies"?
Cameron doesn't look himself recently - because he knows how damaging a label can be. Look at IDS - the "quiet man" destroyed him.
Anyway, overall -
Cameron - 4 - nervy, flustered, couple of mistakes - most un-Cameron like - has to get a grip
Brown - 3 - same old, same old - shameless, cynical, barking mad - needs to see the inside of a padded cell
Clegg - 0 - gone three steps backwards
I thought Brown sounded angry today, his voice was cracking with fervour. Cameron's barb about Brown's penchant for dividing lines between himself and reality was a killer.
robinson is wrong about 1992.why,
1 in 92' the public could not afford labour.house prices were low.so the tax bomb shell policy worked for the tories.
2 1997 house prices were up,so tax rises were less of a problem
3 2001 same as 97'
4 2005 house prices still rising,so the public did not know they were being rooked,and they were big time.
5 2010 everybody is broke,so the public cant afford labour again.
bring it on.
Do people not remember that Clegg gets only TWO questions. Brown's response to Clegg was so bad (you're wrong that Brown swiped Clegg away) that Clegg would have found him out if he had one more question.
Cameron has so many questions to get it right. I'm surprised sometimes that he doesnt manage to.
I thought it was a score draw today. Cameron had a shocker with the 'Europe' comment. Interesting you didnt mention that Iain.
Chris Paul - and what are you implying by "straight"?
I remember a journalist a while ago - his name escapes me now - saying that Cameron would have to do something really stupid for the Tories not to win the election.
Does admitting big cuts amount to this?
We will see. I can't believe the middle class voters who sway general elections will vote for Brown - he is surely everything they detest.
Hung parliament - possible, and may become probable.
Con overall majority? Yes - if Cameron and the Tories get a grip and present the election with the facts - and don't start flip-flopping in the face of Labour lies and propaganda.
I'm pleased to see you give an honest assessment of Cameron's performance. This, for me, is the difference between the Tories and Labour: we can accept reality. They go around pretending everything's wonderful all the time.
Doesn't anyone else watch these proceedings and think, "This is ridiculous. Why can't we just have a General Election?"?
Would anyone like to be my friend?
@Paul Burgin 1:31 PM "Lets be honest here Iain, Labour MP's barracked Cameron because he said that the recession was a European one, as opposed to one of the governments making"
That, in a nutshell, is what revolts me (and I would suspect a lot of other "ordinary" people) about the present version of "politics"... That a man should be barracked for making one of the few true statements of the session.
Let's face it, Brown is dead and buried, broken backed. The dwindling number of his supporters still in denial are clutching at straws. The idea that he's seized upon some kind of silver bullet or kryptonite with his latest piece of cognitive dissonance is manifestly absurd. Brown is "MORE UNPOPULAR THAN THE GERMANS AT NORMANDY" to quote Paul Merton. Does he or Nick Robinson, in reality, really think that Shaun Woodward will save him? It's not only preposterous, it's naff, and it smells bad, like appointing Alan Sugar.
I admire Paxman, Andrew Neil , Adam Boulton etc because they don't tow any party line. Nick Robinson is a deplorably partisan and out of touch. His Daily Politics PMQ's predictions on the likely subjects for debate are dependably wrong, time after time after time.
Chris Paul said: 'Robinson is a Tory. Just relatively honest.'
Well, he's being honest that during the GE campaign he will stop analyzing Labour Slogans/Lies (as the BBC always does) and give them free rein to try and bulldoze their way to a historic nightmare.
Gary Elsby, Labour don't want people to have any say ever about any of the constitutional changes to this country being imposed by the EU. Labour are in government right now (with treaty still unratified) and refuse to consult the people. Carry on enjoying your putrid political games.
I thought Brown was completely disingenuous today. I'm sure it'll be selectively edited for the six o'clock news. I've also written up a short insight into the different types of lies here. Very enlightening.
And my scores :-
Brown...5 Was in the mood for a fight but nobody cares
Cameron...7 Brown tried to pin him down as a cutter, He pinned Brown succesfully as a liar
Clegg...3 very inneffectual
I haven't seen pmq yet so can't really comment. But quite afew of your tory comrades disagree.
Have you ever given brown a win over cameron ? If your not going to be serious with marks then why bother ?
Much as I hate that useless Stalinist twat, I have to say he won today. Brown 6, Cameron 5, Clegg 4.
Cameron allowed Brown off the ropes with his admission that the recession is a global problem, not just a British one, although the point he was trying to make was a valid one - that no other European Government fared as badly as Labour in the European Elections earlier this month.
He also missed a trick on Brown's oft-repeated mantra about "governing for the many not the few"; could Cameron not have turned this on its head and pointed out that Brown has only ever had the support of the few - the very few (6% of the electorate) and that he did not, had never and never would represent the many.
Not really sure what Clegg was playing at today, he also struggles to have his voice heard.
But the award for dumbest question of the day has to go to Emily Thornberry, you know, the whiny bint who was on the radio the other day demanding MPs get paid more, telling us she got paid far more as a lawyer; here's some advice Emily, if you feel £64,766 isn't enough, GET BACK IN THE COURTROOM.
Fausty said...
"Let's hope the incoming Speaker forces Brown to answer questions he's asked."
As has been pointed out several times on this site, the PM must respond to questions but is not obliged to actually answer them. Margaret Thatcher was adept at treating a question as a launching pad for a general tirade against the Opposition.
Good points Shamik, a man with only 6% support claiming to speak for the many is a patent absurdity.
We all know the torys will be bigger cutters than labour,so why dont we all shut up and take it on the chin and fight for a smaller state.
Is 'cutter' Brown sailing too close to the wind?
http://moralorder.mediumisthemess.com/blog
Just seen pmqs. Cameron looked lost and nervous.
Sorry but the fact that this is not just a British recession is hardly a state secret. Just because the Labour backbenchers suddenly woke up and acted like it was feeding time at the zoo doesn't disguise the fact that other countries will recover much quicker from the recession because they are not saddled with the kind of debt Brown has left us with.
Moreover he made it crystal clear today that he is going to let the debt grow and grow until we have to go cap in hand once more to the IMF. Then he can blame the cuts on someone else.
People have had enough of Brown. They know he's a liar. They know he will destroy the country if he is allowed to continue. I just hope it's not too late by next May.
Some say that Gordon Brown doesn't cut the mustard any more.
By the way, does anyone know whether Stephen Fry is the latest Senechal of the Grand Order of Sion?
http://moralorder.mediumisthemess.com/blog
It would all be rather jolly were it the case
Shamik I totally agree with the main point of your case (6% of the electorate).
However, the Labour voters of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath represent about 0.06% of the electorate.
Which ever way you cut it (for want of a better phrase) Ù…Øمود اØمدی نژاد* has a bigger mandate than Brown.
*You all know him and love him.
Cameron needs to move Osborne from the seat next to him in PMQ's - Osborne looks like a child who has asked his big brother to come and beat up the horrible boys that stole his gobstoppers.Close your MOUTH George!
As for Brown - he will not last for another month - he is literally exhibiting signs of total mental breakdown and his cabinet alongside him (Ball's was hiding behind the Speaker's chair)look like a line of Moscovites waiting for the next bus to take them to the tractor factory,or to the tractor repair centre that is opposite the tractor factory.
I have to hand it to Victoria Debryshire - she could not disguise her scorn and contempt for the boy wonder Cooper on her radio show this morning.
If you were a neighbour of Cooper / Ball's,it would not be long before you noticed a toxic slurry leaking under your fence from their garden....
Well, I just listened to it. What a waste of time. Cameron really does need to let people know what Conservative plans are, but why didn't he just counter Gordon Brown's list of inflation adjusted spend figures with the IFS's list of spending with debt interest and benefits taken out? It was such an obvious reply yet he didn't do it.
Martin was as useless as ever. He would never let the Conservatives shout as long as Labour MPs did after the Europe line. Thank god that's the last we need to see of him.
And to Brown's last reply, Cameron has a great start for next time. Brown asked 'how many nurses, doctors etc would Tory cuts put out of work?', his answer should be 'absolutely none - how does the PM not realise that you don't have to fire people to cut expenditure?'. It would probably help if he didn't shy away from the fact that cuts are going to have to be made.
Strapworld:
"Brown was typical BUT he did look bouyant!".
As buoyant as a stinking, brown floater?
Brown's demeanour and responses were shocking, he seemed angry and wounded, stereotypically referring to his slogans for comfort, a desperate and worrying display. He did not appear rational or in control of himself. What is his mental state? For the good of the country we need to know.
I predict Darling will resign by mid July,citing the inability to be Chancellor when Brown is not listening/involving him and Ball's is plotting against him.
Cameron 7
Brown 6
Clegg - Shouldn't have bothered.
The McBride question caught me off guard, as did the reply, but other than that a fairly routine PMQs full of plants and the usual gas.
Haha, verification word was 'pants'. Appropriate for this weeks PMQs.
Even the wall street journal wants him gone.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124500992205413331.html
You are all still content to carry on playing your little games with peoples lives. Nothing has changed. All of parliament is totally corrupt, you never even mentioned the jobless rate of 2.3 million, the highest since 1996.
So much happening, shares falling etc an all you want to do is scxore points and carry on saving your own skins. Worthless corrupt whores!
I'd prefer to see Cameron's plans as they're more relevant.
Come on Iain. Your scoring of the debate is nonsense, you are being devious in the hope of stirring up some of your posters.
Cameron needs to make the point that if the government keep saying they will increase spending and increase also the consequent deficit there is a strong chance that the government's debt will lose its current AAA rating. If that were to happen then the consequent increase in borrowing costs (if further borrowing were still possible) would mean that even steeper cuts would be necessary.
Labour's loose talk could bring about even more swinging cuts.
@Strapworld
I have to say that the Tories do not look convincing. Gove was brilliant against balls but against the lightweight, Bradshaw, was poor.
Isn't politics a funny-old game? I though that he was good against Balls on WatO, but magnificently honest and responsible today against Bradshaw.
There again, the Labour strategists (as NR pointed with large input from Sean Woodward) believe that the British public will swallow this, hook, line and sinker.
Brpwn's reponse to Clegg's question on the separation of investment banks and high street banks ("Both types failed") show the depths of Brown's ignorance.
Lehman failed because it was holding a lot of securitised crap fom mortgage banks. UK mortgage banks failed because they had developed a business model that depended on their continuing ability to shovel crap at the market through banks like Lehman.
Nul points to Brown for his answer and nul points to Clegg for not knowing how to frame the question.
Brown pulled a very odd, contorted face when Cameron said "unelected Prime Minister".
Brown chanting "Tory tax cuts" like the thick kid in the playground may not impress the more thoughtful but may well find a home in the subconscious of those who rely heavily on public services.
It's a pity the careless intro scuppered Dave's retort. He was clearly going to say that despite economic problems other leaders, had been strongly supported in the European elections; Brown's failure was because he was a useless, lying bastard who had lost all credibility - as his present denials of cuts illustrated.
The wrong footing by Labour jeers at the intro meant the carefully prepared sound bite never arrived but no doubt it will return.
Perhaps DC could do with a few suggestions (like comparisons with Pinocchio) as to how he might retort to Gordo's lies in a style that the speaker will not require him to withdraw.
I have decided not to watch PMQs any more. It's becoming crystal clear that Brown is an idiot.
I have nearly lost the plot with you Iain. You are so biased. This was Browns best performance for so time.
I simply cannot understand why Brown does not stop spouting dubious tractor statistics and simpply say basically "Look -whoever gets back into government after the election will have to make cuts in public spending.As a Labour politician it's not something I want to do but it has to be done etc etc for the following reasons...." He'd probably get more respect from the electorate by being straight with us for once but the tragedy or comedy of the situtaion is that he is incapable of actually being anything other than partisan or actually admitting that he's made mistakes(because of course in his view - he hasn't). If he started to be truthful and treat the electorate as "adults" he might even start to benefit in the polls
I thought Cameron was poor today. He is starting to look and sound unsure, and I fear for him if there is an upturn (however slight) in the economy.
Clegg was useless, and Brown did ok.
I am starting to worry about DC.
I think the BBC is biased and I think Andrew Marr was unashamedly biased. However, I don't think Nick Robinson is. You can't call a journalist biased just because they don't back the Conservatives on every single issue.
Nick Robinson is very clever at selling "column inches" - for his employer, the BBC. He is a clever guy and he knows how to push buttons - partisan supporters call it "bias". Not so sure - I have heard him to be very scathing of Brown and Labour - and guess what - the Labour bloggers then say he is biased. If anything, the BBC has, at least recently, gone fairly easy on Cameron, though not necessarily the Tories as a whole.
Regarding PMQs today.
Brown - 0 - I give him zero every week, because he has no right to be where he is. Plus, he's as mad as a March hare.
Cameron - a stuttering 4 - made a real gaffe regarding the European recession line, and looks increasingly nervous. Is he losing confidence? I think the public really want to back him - but are not yet fully convinced.
Clegg - 2 - a perfectly reasonable set of questions - in the context of the day, utterly useless. The Liberals, at times, look completely irrelevant.
I'm not sure how much this bear-baiting means to the general public anyway.
Have we ever thought of emailing the backbencher responsible for the planted question every week for a little bit of ridicule?
Cameron has been abysmal for months, not weeks; Brown is in the weakest position, both personally and in terms of policy, of any British PM for decades, and yet Cameron does nothing more than repeat his demand for an election. Both Daniel Hannan, and Nigel Farage, have offered far more effective, and comprehensive, criticisms of Brown than he has.
Brown's eagerness to discuss public spending could be used by a competant or bold opposition leader as the noose by which to hang him. Indtead, Cameron seems preoccupied with defending the "reformed" image of his Tories.
So, Gordon "Mr 15 Per Cent" Brown has been lying once again in Parliament? Son of the manse, my arse.
Why aren't the media hounding him on a daily basis with repeated accusations that Brown is a liar? Because that's what this proves him to be.
The public want good public services,if Cameron says hes going to cut them i will not vote for him.
Tomorrows papers have the Labour spending lie well and truly nailed.
Brownies are now being reported as such.
He cannot continue lying if the MSM won't back him. The economists have been shaking their heads at his hokum figures for ages. Now the papers will too.
He will look like a lying, deceiving, idiot if he carries on.
I know that he is a lying, deceiving,idiot, but why would anyone want to appear as one?
getting a bit fed up with the antics in the gentlemen's club.
Brown is near certifiable, Cameron is degenerating into an obsequious Labour groveller
the eulogy to martin was repulsive
Clegg just high on something
parliament increasingly out of touch
sixty million people just sickened by it all , not to say bored
when is going to end?
Very interesting thread here. The Nulabor trolls are out in force trying to rubbish DC, so:
1) they think this blog matters (and it does)
and
2) they're rattled, as they should be.
I think DC has hit the nail on the head. The electorate isn't stupid and can see that Brown's lying to them. Cuts have to be made and the only decision to be made is; where?
Brown 0
Cameron 8
Clegg - was he there
ITV, Channel 4 and Sky were scathing of the one eyes snot eater today. but guess which news broadcaster is missing off that list?
Breaking News
Kitty Ussher has resigned.
The fall of the house of, etc etc
You mentioned nothing about your leader's' slip-of-the-tongue during PMQ's, though Iain. Recession is Europe-wide he says. I guess we should blame Brown for victimising Romanians in Belfast as well should we.
And plus, Toby Helm rates Labour victorious on cheering factor, and he is not wrong. I second DMC's figures; Brown won today, fair and square, and without reference to the Nazi's!!
I'm afraid you are talking utter codswallop about Clegg (though I hate to admit it) he has a wonderful point about separating investment banking versus retail banking.
Mervin King at Mansion house tonight underscores his point!
In a clear divergence with the chancellor, King said: "If some banks are thought to be too big to fail, then, in the words of a distinguished American economist, they are too big. It is not sensible to allow large banks to combine high street retail banking with risky investment banking or funding strategies, and then provide an implicit state guarantee against failure."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/17/king-in-bank-reform-call
I really do wish you'd brush up on your economics Iain (and I'd wish the same for a great many conservative activists) because your economic illiteracy really does let you down at times. Knowledge of some basic economics is a vital tool in defeating arguments of the left.
Indeed we should be defeating Brown on policy arguments very very easily.
"Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt would be a great start for anyone (even the PM).
Mr Brown is doing Cameron a favour.
Unless you are brain dead, reeling in public spending is essential. The alternative is more taxation. There is going to be no choice about this, so why doesn't Cameron make it clear that the choice is more taxation or spending cuts or both?
I cannot imagine what Labour has in store for after the next election, but I will bet on massive tax hikes. Just the thing to de-motivate the people who prop up this country and just the thing to appease the spongers and one legged black lesbians who depend on New Labour for overpaid public sector jobs.
Brown's Police deliberately target people they know are innocent. And it's “here, Kitty, Kitty” as Kitty Usher resigns in a new expensesgate scandal!
They should have got rid of Brown when they had the chance. The fools!
Reading some of the comments I thought Brown would have had the better of the exchanges. However, if you go to 14.40 onwards at the recording of PMQs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8104911.stm) I think it's fair to say the Prime Minister wasn't in his comfort zone by any means!
Interesting debate going on this evening on Political Betting.Com about G.Brown's abuse of the expenses system. Appears he one of the worst troughers.
Cameron has looked much less sure footed lately, and why was Lansbury discussing the economy ?
And Jeremy Hunt yesterday, on the Politics Show was dire - Cameron spoke about witholding part of the license fee to fund other public service broadcasters, about a year ago, but this has now morphed into a Labour policy, and Hunt just refused to answer ANY questions (like a typical Labour aparatchik).
The whole Conservative communications strategy is poor, poor, poor !! For God's sake get a grip !!
Word check: aloandue ... very appropriate.
A lot of people have said that David Cameron looks "poor" and isn't up to par.
Doesn't anybody know anything about bereavement? Ivan died very suddenly a little over four months ago, his death will have left a yawning chasm that will be hard to seal.
Four months is not long when you're trying to deal with a sudden death, and it's also the time when it begins to hit home - that a person has died, and won't becoming back. DC is a family man, he has a wife and two other children who will also be suffering - and they live in a house that was built around Ivan.
He has actually done remarkably well under the circumstances, and has even seen Brown try to cash in on the "I lost my baby too" bandwagon, with the publication of his book.
For DC to have "performed badly" today, when Michael Martin showed his true partisan colours and, as a parting shot, allowed the whole of the Labour benches to heckle for about a minute, is not entirely unexpected.
Under the circumstances I think he did fairly well - but do agree that he needs to pull some things together, and perhaps also learn some Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) techniques - it works in advertising and it, sadly, works for Labour!
Boris gets it:
http://tinyurl.com/mft4qa
He's the first politician I've read to actually state this and (Seemingly) to even understand it.
This is where Cameron should be attacking Brown. I find it quite baffling that he is not doing so.
Yes, there need to be cuts, but businesses need to be helped, too.
Gordon's clearly been given some coaching.
Every time he mentioned Tory 'cuts', there was a definite 'pause for effect' between ten and percent.
I would prefer to see cuts of more than 10% please - make the backroom public sector layabouts work for once in their lives.
Gordon Brown is turning this Country into a state not fit for Alice in Woderland.
Government borrowings and the interest we have to pay on the debt has never been higher. The more money we pay for this debt the less there is to provide public services. Whats Gordon's answer to this problem? He will continue to spend, spend ,spend.
The banks got us into this mess, helped in no small measure by Gordon's useless but, very expensive quango, the FSA. When they went into meltdown they were not allowed to fail as happens to all other company failures.
They were deemed to big to fail and thus merited Gordon throwing £175 billion of taxpayers' money to recue them, with hardly an executive sacked, a bonus lost or a pension diminished.
Whats Gordon's answer been? He made one of the banks even bigger and now his Chancellor in his Mansion House address says their is no need to reduce the size of the banks or to tighten regulatory powers.
Just goes to prove Alice in Wonderland might have been fantasy but, it had a lot more sanity about it than our present Prime Minister.
Okay that’s f'ing IT!
Had a look on the expenses website;
My MP – James Arbuthnot – wealthy than the wealthiest,bought a house for £900K without a mortgage being needed,charged you and me;
£183.39 for a “chainsaw for logs”
Holy cow – there we have it – and we are told to shut the fxxx up and be quiet while they screw us for every penny.
Sounds like we will have the Hampshire Chainsaw Massacre this weekend……
And that's only the first claim I have opened for Oct 2007....
He also claimed £25.82 for "vases"
I am seething,my blood is boiling.
Cameron hasn't won for the last 2 weeks now. Why hasn't he realised that he's just playing into Browns hands using the questions he is?
Cameron and his strategists need to come up with something better.
Unfortunately the media today seem to be largely ignoring the spending spat - they are bored - which is a shame since we have a PM who is standing up and telling lies to parliament.
If the media get bored on this topic, then the Brown lie will survive and seep into gullible people's conciousness.
McLoon - 10%
David - 90%
Rest - 0%
simples
Labour MP to revolt, more expenses scandals, why the BNP shouldn’t have a future, and how dangerous IS Gordon Brown’s Britain?
where the fuck is Dale today??
On fucking strike??
WE NEED YOU CHIP, YOU CHUMP!!
Brown's lies MUST be nailed and nailed in public. BOM this morning has the ***t down to a T
Lies, damned lies, & more damned lies
wv : mudgenob, as in
Brown, you fucking mudgenob
Yesterday Mervyn King in his understated and mild mannered way, touched upon government debt. NuLab after a good start, deliberately ran the economy in deficit from 2000/01 (£1.8Bn) increasing to 2008/09 (£80Bn) and have currently built up an ‘official’ debt of about 800Bn.
Including bank bail outs, PFI, Public Sector Pensions etc., true debt for UK Plc is estimated at about 2.3Tr according to the ‘Centre for Policy Studies’, which is 160% of GDP or £96k for each household in the UK.
When will our politicians confront the ‘elephant in the room’?
Tories to get Public Expenditure by 10%, Oh I hope not.
10% is nowhere near enough to get us out of the deep hole dug for us by NuLab.
Interesting new story just breaking:
█████ ██ ██████████ ███████
██ ██ ██
Or so I've heard.
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